Crosswords2 mins ago
Welby: We Need To Understand What Jihadists Are Talking About
92 Answers
//It is becoming “essential” to grasp the logic of people driven by an obsessive belief that the end of the world is nigh//
They're not.
//It’s very difficult to understand the things that impel people to some of the dreadful actions that we have seen over the last few years unless you have some sense of religious literacy.//
That’s true – and he doesn’t.
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They're not.
//It’s very difficult to understand the things that impel people to some of the dreadful actions that we have seen over the last few years unless you have some sense of religious literacy.//
That’s true – and he doesn’t.
http://
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Gromit - //agchristie
We have had a caliphate before. It is why the former Ottoman states are today Muslim. It did not seek world domination.
The present push is to defeat Shia Islam and make Sunni Islam the one Islam. //
Have you run that past the 'expert' cabal? If not, expect to be challenged!
Personally, I am happy to accept your point as an opinion - others are less forgiving.
We have had a caliphate before. It is why the former Ottoman states are today Muslim. It did not seek world domination.
The present push is to defeat Shia Islam and make Sunni Islam the one Islam. //
Have you run that past the 'expert' cabal? If not, expect to be challenged!
Personally, I am happy to accept your point as an opinion - others are less forgiving.
Gromit - how dows history help the here and now?
IS wish to eliminate Christianity and others who don't share their ideology and dominate Europe and beyond.
We saw how they increased their territories while the world dithered as to how to respond. Give them an inch and they would have taken thousands of miles.
IS wish to eliminate Christianity and others who don't share their ideology and dominate Europe and beyond.
We saw how they increased their territories while the world dithered as to how to respond. Give them an inch and they would have taken thousands of miles.
//It did not seek world domination.//
not sure if sulemain the magnificent ever said anything about ruling the world, but his empire had a pretty good go at dominating a large part of the known world of the middle ages, covering the eastern mediterranean, the balkans, the middle east, the red sea and the horn of africa, with further expansion held in check by the portuguese and the habsburgs.
not sure if sulemain the magnificent ever said anything about ruling the world, but his empire had a pretty good go at dominating a large part of the known world of the middle ages, covering the eastern mediterranean, the balkans, the middle east, the red sea and the horn of africa, with further expansion held in check by the portuguese and the habsburgs.
AG - //Gromit - how dows history help the here and now?
IS wish to eliminate Christianity and others who don't share their ideology and dominate Europe and beyond.
We saw how they increased their territories while the world dithered as to how to respond. Give them an inch and they would have taken thousands of miles. //
Al Qaeda was established in 1988, Islamic State was established in 1999 ( Googled those facts!!!) and it is now 2016.
If they are determined to take over the world and crush any and all other faiths, and there are multi-millions of Muslims around the world who support that aim - what do you think is keeping them?
So far - aside from a small amount of local territory, which they constantly struggle to hold onto - they taken over precisely none of the free world in 28 years and 17 years respectively.
If that is the 'threat' that some on here mumble and grumble about on a daily basis, I suggest it's really not anything to get too het up about!
IS wish to eliminate Christianity and others who don't share their ideology and dominate Europe and beyond.
We saw how they increased their territories while the world dithered as to how to respond. Give them an inch and they would have taken thousands of miles. //
Al Qaeda was established in 1988, Islamic State was established in 1999 ( Googled those facts!!!) and it is now 2016.
If they are determined to take over the world and crush any and all other faiths, and there are multi-millions of Muslims around the world who support that aim - what do you think is keeping them?
So far - aside from a small amount of local territory, which they constantly struggle to hold onto - they taken over precisely none of the free world in 28 years and 17 years respectively.
If that is the 'threat' that some on here mumble and grumble about on a daily basis, I suggest it's really not anything to get too het up about!
agchristie - //Andy > If they are determined to take over the world and crush any and all other faiths, and there are multi-millions of Muslims around the world who support that aim - what do you think is keeping them?
What do you suppose would be the outcome if the international response isn't as it is? //
With the exception of the take-over of some local tribal areas that they can bully into submission - exactly what it is now!
This is a tiny bunch of fanatics living in a twelfth-century feudal society with lofty ideals, hardly any money, hardly any weapons, and no army to speak of, much less anything approaching the mechanised military support they would need to come yomping over to Europe and make any kind of significant impact.
What difference do you think there would be?
What do you suppose would be the outcome if the international response isn't as it is? //
With the exception of the take-over of some local tribal areas that they can bully into submission - exactly what it is now!
This is a tiny bunch of fanatics living in a twelfth-century feudal society with lofty ideals, hardly any money, hardly any weapons, and no army to speak of, much less anything approaching the mechanised military support they would need to come yomping over to Europe and make any kind of significant impact.
What difference do you think there would be?
Andy > What difference do you think there would be?
Before the concerted international response led by the Russians, you only had to see the map growing of territory gained throughout Syria and Iraq. Unchecked, the manpower, money, equipment etc would have marched on relentlessly occupying further swathes of land and taking control of areas massacreing those who stood in their way. They would not stop there given the opportunity.
From a religion point of view, Christians face complete wipeout with something like a two-thirds reduction in population in Syria with churches being replaced into buildings with black flags aloft. Ancient sites bulldozed as ISIS attempt to eliminate heritage and culture.
How you can say, Andy, that all IS would be capable of is to bully a few local tribes is astonishing! Look at the maps of territory gained before the coalition intervention.
How far widespread could their gains have gone? IS reckon with nobody so when Mr Welby makes comment in the way that he did about what drives them it is quite despairing really.
Before the concerted international response led by the Russians, you only had to see the map growing of territory gained throughout Syria and Iraq. Unchecked, the manpower, money, equipment etc would have marched on relentlessly occupying further swathes of land and taking control of areas massacreing those who stood in their way. They would not stop there given the opportunity.
From a religion point of view, Christians face complete wipeout with something like a two-thirds reduction in population in Syria with churches being replaced into buildings with black flags aloft. Ancient sites bulldozed as ISIS attempt to eliminate heritage and culture.
How you can say, Andy, that all IS would be capable of is to bully a few local tribes is astonishing! Look at the maps of territory gained before the coalition intervention.
How far widespread could their gains have gone? IS reckon with nobody so when Mr Welby makes comment in the way that he did about what drives them it is quite despairing really.
Agchristie, //despairing really.//
Despair is precisely the word that springs to my mind when reading these posts.
Andy-hughes, //With the exception of the take-over of some local tribal areas that they can bully into submission - exactly what it is now! ……..This is a tiny bunch of fanatics//
Breathtaking!! I’ve posted this several times before but you've clearly ignored it, so may I suggest that before making such ridiculously flippant statements again you read it and do your best to digest it.
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Despair is precisely the word that springs to my mind when reading these posts.
Andy-hughes, //With the exception of the take-over of some local tribal areas that they can bully into submission - exactly what it is now! ……..This is a tiny bunch of fanatics//
Breathtaking!! I’ve posted this several times before but you've clearly ignored it, so may I suggest that before making such ridiculously flippant statements again you read it and do your best to digest it.
http://
Agchristie,
The only reason IS is able to gain any territory is because the US with our assistance, has destablised Iraq and Syria. In the case of Iraq we disbanded the army and police and watched as a civil war ensued. The resultant power vacuum was filled by foreign Islamic extremists funded and inspired by Saudi Arabia. IS terrorised Iraqis and Syrians in the areas they capture. Then we wonder why these people hate the West.
The only reason IS is able to gain any territory is because the US with our assistance, has destablised Iraq and Syria. In the case of Iraq we disbanded the army and police and watched as a civil war ensued. The resultant power vacuum was filled by foreign Islamic extremists funded and inspired by Saudi Arabia. IS terrorised Iraqis and Syrians in the areas they capture. Then we wonder why these people hate the West.
// Before the concerted international response led by the Russians, //
There is nothing concerted about the response, quite the opposite. The US, Russia, Turkey, Assad, Free Syria Army and all the various Jhiadist groups, all have different agendas, objectives and outcomes. The only difference Russia made was to target the Jhadists that were American funded and supported. Just today, we learn that the US are protecting these same Islamic extremists.
http://
There is nothing concerted about the response, quite the opposite. The US, Russia, Turkey, Assad, Free Syria Army and all the various Jhiadist groups, all have different agendas, objectives and outcomes. The only difference Russia made was to target the Jhadists that were American funded and supported. Just today, we learn that the US are protecting these same Islamic extremists.
http://
Naomi -
If my dealings with Mr Hughes are anything to go by, he is not in the least bit interested in evidence or links to evidence. He is interested in one thing and one thing only – his belief. And his belief, in his world, trumps objective evidence every single time. In short, you are talking to a fanatic. Fanatics of all stripes will not look at objective evidence, will not read anything that counters their world-view and will not be honest in their dealing with you or anyone else.
Andy has an agenda. And truth – as far as he is concerned – is irrelevant.
If my dealings with Mr Hughes are anything to go by, he is not in the least bit interested in evidence or links to evidence. He is interested in one thing and one thing only – his belief. And his belief, in his world, trumps objective evidence every single time. In short, you are talking to a fanatic. Fanatics of all stripes will not look at objective evidence, will not read anything that counters their world-view and will not be honest in their dealing with you or anyone else.
Andy has an agenda. And truth – as far as he is concerned – is irrelevant.
Gromit, agchristrie simply said that there has been a concerted international response to prevent IS gaining more territory. The complexities of the politics isn’t the issue – the philosophy of jihadists is. I know how the site works and detracting from the OP usually results in losing sight of it.
Birdie, it becomes increasingly bizarre.
Birdie, it becomes increasingly bizarre.
// The complexities of the politics isn’t the issue – the philosophy of jihadists is. //
It is ALL politics. The Jihadists are just opportunists. The see a country weakened by civil war and they think, "we can take that". The Jihadists do not initiate the war, but if there is to be a land grab, they will go for it.
True they are driven by Wahabbism, a particularly nasty variant of Islam, but their scope and ability are serverely limited. They feed off the chaos that others create. Perhaps we should ourselves refrain from starting the chaos in the first place.
It is ALL politics. The Jihadists are just opportunists. The see a country weakened by civil war and they think, "we can take that". The Jihadists do not initiate the war, but if there is to be a land grab, they will go for it.
True they are driven by Wahabbism, a particularly nasty variant of Islam, but their scope and ability are serverely limited. They feed off the chaos that others create. Perhaps we should ourselves refrain from starting the chaos in the first place.
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