Dog training problem

[Bambiagain]

I have a young – nearly two years – GSD cross. When we go for walks she is pretty good at coming back when I call, responding fast almost every time. But she gets far more and better exercise when she comes with me when I ride, which I do several times a week. Around here one can ride for hours and often not even go near a road, so in theory it is great for letting her run around. However, we have lots of forest and lots of deer and hares. When she spots a deer/herd or a hare, or gets the scent, she is off and no matter how hard I yell at her she completely ignores me. We ride with other dogs, the older ones being obedient enough to come straight back and only one other, a bit younger than mine causing similar problems.

Unfortunately there are people around who shoot game, and they are perfectly entitled to shoot a dog they see running loose. Today my dog was spotted in the forest tracking a scent and I was warned off by a huntsman. (Usually if there are huntsmen around we are careful to keep the dogs on the lead, but we hadn’t seen them this time.)

So unless I can get the dog under control at all times, I shall have to keep her on the lead always. This is no fun for her, me or the horse. And there are times when it is a good thing to have two hands available to control the horse! I am at my wits’ end working out what to do. I carry treats at all time and periodically call the dog back to me and give her a treat when she responds. But if she’s after deer or hares she isn’t interested. I can’t train her to come back without letting her off the lead, but I am risking her getting shot if she runs off just once.

Does anyone have any ideas how to train her effectively not to chase things and, more importantly, to come back every time she is called no matter what?

[Purple_Popple]

Sounds like you are going to have to do some more training with her, she is still a pup really and being a naughty teenager lol....I would stop taking her out with you on your hacks until you are confident of her recall to you when she is off the lead or out of sight. You could try long line (a lungeing rein attached to her collar) training in a large expanse of open space, and treats and just let her do her own thing then call her to you, reward her everytime she comes to you, IGNORE any of her messing about or bad behaviour - if she doesnt come to you immediately, then you are still in control and 'reel her in' - just keep repeating this process of training, then once she sees that coming back to you is fun - try her without the lead on...but as long as you are in a secure open space so she cannot run off totally. Perseverance. She will come good. If she does run off away from you dont run after her as she will think its a game, instead run in the opposite direction away from her, she will get worried that you are leaving her and should come back to you. Good luck.

[Bambiagain]

Purple_Popple - thanks. The problem is that when we are out walking (ie I am on foot) she does come back. But we don't tend to see the deer and hares so much on walks and usually if we do I spot them before she gets the chance and she comes back. I suppose we could walk (with lune rein) somewhere around where it is more likely to see them, but it's rather hit or miss finding the trigger!

[Bambiagain]

Oops - lunge rein.

[Purple_Popple]

That is a great idea Bambi, use the lunge rein on her while just out walking, but walk here where you know there may be deer, rabbits etc so she DOES get a distraction then nip it in the bud, let her go after a rabbit or whatever it is, then just call her, and reel her in, but do give her the opportunity to come to you of her own free will first, if she ignores you - you will need to distract her from other more interesting things...take a squeaky toy with you also, and squeak it if she doesnt come to you first, this should also distract her away from the rabbit and should get her refocused on you...call her name while squeaking the toy...reward her and praise her once she returns. I loved training my dog...great fun, but can be exhausting and frustrating !

[Bambiagain]

Thanks again P_P. Do I have the only dog that dislikes squeaky toys?! She does get praised every time she comes back to me, although I have cut down on the rewards when walking her as she is usually very good and I don't want her to spend the rest of her life expecting treats every time she is good. I do, as I say, reward her when she comes back to the horse, but not when she's been chasing something as I don't want to reinforce the idea that chasing and eventually coming back when she feels like it is a good thing. But for some reason squeaky toys leave her cold. She is not very keen on fetching things either. Nine times out of ten she runs after a ball and either leaves it where it is or ambles off with it away from me. She's much rather I just chase her round the garden, which she finds great fun.

[Purple_Popple]

She is just being naughty and mischievous! Remember if she can get away with it she will...do carry on rewarding her either with a tasty treat or praise, not sure what else you can use if she takes no notice of a squeak toy, does she have a favourite toy at all - if so try using that...regardless of how mundaneit is BUT you must do this on a long line from now on, keep in mind though she is a baby still...you will both have good days and bad ones, some days you will feel that she is just not behaving at all, she is still very much learning....dont let her take you for a soft touch either....keep her on a lead on every walk from now on until she comes to you without any hesitation when recalled....lots of repeating i know..it is very difficult with a youngster when there is so much to explore out there for her, but it will pay dividends in the end....

[Purple_Popple]

just out of interest, does she walk to heel on the lead with you?

[Bambiagain]

Well, I shall try the lunge line and keep her on the lead for the moment while I'm riding. She has so much energy that it's far better for her to come with me whenever possible as I can't give her nearly as much exercise on foot. Having had two dogs previously, mother and daughter, now sadly no longer with me, I've had to start the training thing after a long time of being used to obedient dogs - and to be fair they never came out riding with me as they couldn't when I was in England, conditions not being as they are here. You're right that it is difficult! I had forgotten just how difficult, and to be fair daughter dog almost trained herself and came back and walked to heel from the first with no effort from me. I shall persist. Thanks for your help.

[Bambiagain]

Missed your question before I sent my answer. Yes, she does although she pulls when she's not tired herself out with running around.And she pulls when I'm leading from the horse - if the horse had roller skates (or skis) then it wouldn't have to make any effort itself.

[lankeela]

First of all she cannot legally be shot just for being off the lead, or even chasing wild animals, the only possible reason for being shot would be worrying livestock eg farm animals. Having said that, I find it incredible that you even contemplate letting her run loose when you have no control! What would happen if she caught a deer? You admit she tracks game so what would be stopping her taking off and following a deer which can travel miles in a very short time and getting to a road and getting run over or maybe being injured and you not knowing where she was.

Until you have complete control you are being totally reckless letting her off the lead at all. There is some very good advice here to help get the control but sorry a dead dog is no fun for you or the dog (don't suppose the horse would care).

[leanne2387]

Hi, i dont know if this will help, but maybe when you can see that she has picked up a scent, make a loud high pitched noise to distract her, then call her to come to you, and reward her with a treat. When my dog finds fox poo and is about to eat it, i make a high pitched noise to distract, i know its not the same situation but there's no harm in giving it ago.

[Bambiagain]

Lankeela - I live in Germany, and huntsmen can legally shoot loose dogs. As for your other points, I need to train the dog to come back every time (which she does when I am walking her) therefore am trying to find the best way to address the issue. Having had problems, she is back on the lead until they are sorted, and as you say I have been given some good advice and am going to try it out. Then, when I am ready to try again we shall have to see what happens.

[kita1]

You could try training her to recall to a whistle. They carry much better than your voice and the noise can interrupt the 'chase' behaviour.

There is a good article here (if rather long) about stopping chase behaviour:

http://www.dog-secret...-stop-my-dog-chasing/

[Bambiagain]

Kita 1 - thanks for that link. I've had a look at it and it is very good at explaining the reasons for chasing and why it is so hard to stop. (I particularly liked this analogy:

'What is your favourite exhilarating activity? Hang gliding, ballroom dancing, cuddling your grandchildren, alligator wrestling, strip scrabble, or extreme ironing? Imagine you are halfway through and I say, “Stop that now and I’ll give you a biscuit.”

Would you?

No, and neither will your dog.'

which makes perfect sense!). I took her for a long walk earlier, callling her back frequently, and each time she responded perfectly - there were no deer or hares around, of course. So the point that the dog doesn't hear when it is chasing is reinforced by this - she does hear when she's not otherwise distracted.

I like the whistle idea, but will have to try it out with the horses first because they might not be too impressed. Meanwhile I shall have to try tempting her with a ball or something, but as she is not really interested in balls I shall have to be inventive. Fortunately she doesn't chase cars (she's more afraid of them) and confines her chasing to game.

Thanks to all for your suggestions.