Will you sign this petition to stop the culling of our Badgers.

[ladybirder]

I have just watched Brian May talking about Team Badger on BBC1 and he is asking for people to sign it. All the information is here.
http://www.teambadger.org/
Thank you.

[DTCwordfan]

with gness after him, dressed in alba's pink balaclava, are you surprised?

[gness]

With the AB Clava gang on the case you may as well sign now DT. We know where you.....err.....drink! x

[shoota]

Man controls his environment - it's called farming.
Something causes a problem it is frightened off or dealt with.
Badgers have been protected for a long while now and the population density has increased to 10 times that of Europe and in some areas has reached saturation point which impacts on man (as with Buzzards.)
Do you cede ground to the badgers, put up with an (ever) increasing amount of cattle deaths resulting in less (therefore more expensive) meat and run the risk of further, more serious disease outbreaks (rabies)?
Or do you trial methods of control to see which is the more effective and continue with the practice of controlling the environment for our benefit?
I'm not anti-badger, I'm not pro-cull - but I can see the need for this TRIAL in order that DEFRA is best informed and able to get on with solving the bovine TB problem for the benefit of affected farmers and, ultimately, us all.
Deer are successfully and humanely controlled by shooting, why not Badgers?

[gness]

Shoota. If..if badgers are passing the virus to cattle how will killing less than a fifth of the badger population in an area help?

[shoota]

Unless the trialis held we'll never know will we?

(Sorry G, I tried to keep my mouth shut :-( x)

[tonyav]

Hey, gness I signed !

[gness]

I knew you'd be here...wouldn't expect anything less. Ye gods! How dull if we all agreed. I like to listen to the wrong or mistaken side of the argument too. ;-)

Sometimes I can look at things very simply. When my son came home from school with head lice I nuked the lot.....I didn't hang on to about 85% and let them roam around.

We kill all the badgers or we call off the cull. To have target of 16%...which I will check as it seems idiotic.....is very suspicious. xx

[gness]

I know you did lovely Tony. We watch you all you know. xx You well?

[tonyav]

Not bad, thanks gness, you.

[shoota]

I may be mistaken but I understood that this was a trial of the method not the outcome.
In other words if that percentage of Badgers can be taken safely and efficiently by these trained shooters then the 'method' can be rolled out to effective proportions.
As I mentioned previously I believe the final decision on a control method will be made in December.

[gness]

Fine thanks Tony. x

Shoota. How can anything less than complete eradication be effective?

[shoota]

Badgers migrate when population density increases thereby taking (if infected) the disease with them.
Reduce the population to limit migration.
Vaccinate the rest.
Allow cattle farmers to control under licence populations around their farms.

(My thinking - I don't know if that coincides with DEFRA's.)

[ladybirder]

And how do you know when you've eradicated your target percentage anyway?

[ganesh]

Shoota- we have already had trials and long scientific studies and they showed that it was not really effective.Even the main scientific guy (can't remember his name-sorry) who did the enquiry has said in the papers that this cull is crazy!Unless you are prepared to wipe out the entire species,it will not have any significant effect.It will simply cause a migration and possible spread of the infection when the wildlife (foxes and moles also carry it) moves further away when in danger.Put all this cost into a vaccination programme for cattle and then it won't matter.
Ladybirder-did you watch the Wright Stuff arguments?Interesting (and unusually) they couldn't find anyone FOR the cull on the phone lines.Not ALL farmers agree with it either.

[shoota]

I havn't been following the arguments and developements over the years but I do know that the small scale trials and tests they have done in the past have been inconclusive which is why they are doing this next batch of trials.
The problem (as I see it) is that Badgers are protected and have become too numerous.
If the protection were removed and the population reduced significantly (no one would want total eradication) then migration would decline and allow effective treatment of stable populations by vaccination. Ultimately to the benefit of the Badger population as occurs with the sensible culling of deer.
There are ways to control foxes and moles which are not available to the farmer with a Badger problem.

[ganesh]

'Benefit of the badger population'? Right.
Please listen to David Attenborough (link back on this thread) and to the scientists reports who,as you have said,have already done significant trials,and who say this is not going to work.16%,it is so random,they are not even sure how many badgers are out there.Another bloodbath for nothing?
Interesting that you are more or less the only one on this thread FOR this cull-the one with a gun as his avatar!

[shoota]

A few years old but very pertinent......

http://www.warmwell.com/btbjune09.pdf

[ganesh]

The facts,taken from June 2009,before the significant scientific research and trial cull.

[ladybirder]

Been busy, sorry. Yes I did Ganesh, Lowry (I don't care about badgers and kill the foxes as well while you're at it) Turner really gave it a lot of thought didn't she. Must have been all of two seconds. The first caller, Justin from the west country somewhere was very knowledgeable but MW cut him off, and yes, all callers against the cull.
I don't want to see either badgers or cows dying from BTB. In an ideal world we'd have a vaccine for cows that would not render their milk undrinkable and make the meat unfit for our consumption and a programme that would allow this to happen without interference from the EU. And then we have to eradicate it in the badger population. I've read there are several countries close to finding both an oral vaccine for badgers and an acceptable skin test for bovines but time doesn't appear to be on our side in this country.
A bit of good news, well hearsay actually, is that the Anti cull petition is getting over 2000 signings per hour, 81% against the cull.
If the Government is doing this to placate the farmers, especially in the West Country where bovine TB is rife and where I believe there are many Tory strongholds, then I think they have miscalculated badly, unless the 19% voting for the cull are all from the West Country.

[ganesh]

Maybe,but just to add I am from the West Country(Somerset),we have a few badgers around but I'm not aware of any 'local' problems with the herds near us.You're right though,there is a strong tory hold down here,maybe why they let the fox hunting continue around us,the law doesn't seem to matter to them.
Btw-Lowry is always ridiculously annoying on that programme,don't know how or why she is there,just so she can flirt I think!