ChatterBank4 mins ago
Is the Kennel Club instrumental in propagating puppy farming?
16 Answers
I really would like your comments on this, have you complained to the KC? Did you get anywhere
I have left this forum open to guests, we really would like your opinions on this
http://www.mygermanshepherd.co.uk/forums/showt hread.php?t=658
you can also comment here, and I will cut and past into the debate
I have left this forum open to guests, we really would like your opinions on this
http://www.mygermanshepherd.co.uk/forums/showt hread.php?t=658
you can also comment here, and I will cut and past into the debate
Answers
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I don't see that this is relevant to a question and answer forum where people come for advice on animal matters.
There is a danger that the thread will become clogged with
messages from people joining the discussion at the expense of people who wish to ask advice and people will not come back to the site because of the long drawn out
discussions which cannot have a logical conclusion on here.
You have the discussion on your own forum - people should go there if they want to join in the discussion.
There is a danger that the thread will become clogged with
messages from people joining the discussion at the expense of people who wish to ask advice and people will not come back to the site because of the long drawn out
discussions which cannot have a logical conclusion on here.
You have the discussion on your own forum - people should go there if they want to join in the discussion.
As a breeder iankeela, I thought this is something that you would be grateful for,
It looks like the KC are beginning to listen and they are getting of there back sides and doing something about puppy farms/bad breeders,
I am appalled, how I was treated as a buyer, and I am appalled that the KC is still allowing this barbaric breeding to continue
I have asked people to leave there opinions on my forum, so the answerbank does not get clogged up.
Read back thro the questions asked by many people on here, 60% of them own a pedigree that have problems, I was only asking how many have complain to the the KC
It looks like the KC are beginning to listen and they are getting of there back sides and doing something about puppy farms/bad breeders,
I am appalled, how I was treated as a buyer, and I am appalled that the KC is still allowing this barbaric breeding to continue
I have asked people to leave there opinions on my forum, so the answerbank does not get clogged up.
Read back thro the questions asked by many people on here, 60% of them own a pedigree that have problems, I was only asking how many have complain to the the KC
I have been asked by Moreen Davie, A Dog's Life, Cardiff, UK to publish the enclosed:-
COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE KENNEL CLUB 2006
Having received 180 complaints in three months from members of the public, it appears that the Kennel Club is instrumental in propagating puppy farming. The charges against the K.C. total 25 and are as follows.
Whilst K.C. believe that inbreeding is necessary to keep the lines open in many of the cases inbreeding is merely causing suffering and death because of congenital diseases being carried forward.
No 4) Lab. with inflamed bowel and undiagnosed joint problems. Free Ins. Offered by K.C. Breeder R. Shute Vets fees �780. Will be on painkillers til 3 years old. Plus various hereditary allergies.
12) Staffie back legs need reconstructing Vets fees �1,500 Breeder R. Shute. FREE INS. OFFERED BY KC. Owner rang k.c. and they were not interested. Underweight when bought plus ear problems
115) Golden Lab. Joint problems, legs may need reconstructing. K.C. Reg. Owner rang K.C. & RSPCA and was told There is nothing we can do. Breeder R. Shute Operation costing �3,000.
VETS BILL FOR ABOVE 3 IS IN THE REGION OF �6,000
21) Shih Tzu K.C. Reg. although not a pure breed.. Owner spoke to K.C. who wanted nothing more to do with it. Owner persisted and K.C. refunded �200. This pup should have been DNA tested
COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE KENNEL CLUB 2006
Having received 180 complaints in three months from members of the public, it appears that the Kennel Club is instrumental in propagating puppy farming. The charges against the K.C. total 25 and are as follows.
Whilst K.C. believe that inbreeding is necessary to keep the lines open in many of the cases inbreeding is merely causing suffering and death because of congenital diseases being carried forward.
No 4) Lab. with inflamed bowel and undiagnosed joint problems. Free Ins. Offered by K.C. Breeder R. Shute Vets fees �780. Will be on painkillers til 3 years old. Plus various hereditary allergies.
12) Staffie back legs need reconstructing Vets fees �1,500 Breeder R. Shute. FREE INS. OFFERED BY KC. Owner rang k.c. and they were not interested. Underweight when bought plus ear problems
115) Golden Lab. Joint problems, legs may need reconstructing. K.C. Reg. Owner rang K.C. & RSPCA and was told There is nothing we can do. Breeder R. Shute Operation costing �3,000.
VETS BILL FOR ABOVE 3 IS IN THE REGION OF �6,000
21) Shih Tzu K.C. Reg. although not a pure breed.. Owner spoke to K.C. who wanted nothing more to do with it. Owner persisted and K.C. refunded �200. This pup should have been DNA tested
39 & 155) 4 Yorkie pups from same litter. One had no hip bone, one had systemic liver shunt, one was pts after two months and the fourth has perthes of back leg. In all cases testicles had not dropped which resulted in further surgery. Vets fees totalled �3,285. One furious owner was told by K.C. that inbreeding is not illegal and refused to reveal the other owner�s name who had bought from the same litter. All pups were K.C. Reg. Letter from K.C. offering their condolences but stating that private sales of dogs do not come within their jurisdiction and advised owner to report to trading standards. Why has the K.C. not removed this breeder from registering any more of her pups?.
59) Pup with hip dysplasia at 8 months old. Vets fees �1,000. According to K.C. inbreeding is acceptable if Sire/Daughter but not Dam/Son. This G.S.D�s grandfather is also the Dam�s father. The two sisters and the mother all suffered from the same problem, so no hip scoring was done. Again 6wks free ins. With Pet Plan. The owner�s vet rang the breeder and advised them not to breed again but, needless to say another litter is due before Christmas. This breeder has been taken to court many times but her pups are still K.C. Reg
88) Weimeraner K.C. Reg. Owner sent documents to K.C. and asked why this breeder was allowed to continue her business. They responded by stating they would contact Carmarthenshire Council and ask for an inspection to be made. Pup suffered from campylobacter and entropia. Vet�s fees �3,000
59) Pup with hip dysplasia at 8 months old. Vets fees �1,000. According to K.C. inbreeding is acceptable if Sire/Daughter but not Dam/Son. This G.S.D�s grandfather is also the Dam�s father. The two sisters and the mother all suffered from the same problem, so no hip scoring was done. Again 6wks free ins. With Pet Plan. The owner�s vet rang the breeder and advised them not to breed again but, needless to say another litter is due before Christmas. This breeder has been taken to court many times but her pups are still K.C. Reg
88) Weimeraner K.C. Reg. Owner sent documents to K.C. and asked why this breeder was allowed to continue her business. They responded by stating they would contact Carmarthenshire Council and ask for an inspection to be made. Pup suffered from campylobacter and entropia. Vet�s fees �3,000
118) West Highland White � ball joint too big for the socket K.C. Reg. Operation to cost �2,000 � K.C. not interested
168) Same breed pup bought from same breeder as above which was pts 24hrs after purchase. Both pups were listed on the K.C. puppy recommended breeder list. Owner did not have time to register the transfer of ownership with the K.C. �800 purchase price. The breeder�s vet knew the pups would not live as the owner had a report from them. Owner now prosecuting under small claims.
180) Choc Labrador on K.C. puppy list suffering from elbow dysplasia and gastric problems plus muscle tone has not developed so head hangs to one side. vet�s fees �3,000 plus vet meds costing �65 per month. The pup has to be caged and sedated twice a day. This breeder also sells Bulldogs
182) Doberman on K.C. recommended breeders list � cryptorchid, larynx does not function properly, neurological problems resulting in instability of back legs, muscles faded causing enlarged oesophagus. K.C. ins given for 6 weeks.
193) Weimeraner on K.C. breeder�s list. Paid �500., epilepsy, twisted gut, tumour behind eye. Vet�s fees �4,900. First fit at 4yrs of age had a DNA test.
168) Same breed pup bought from same breeder as above which was pts 24hrs after purchase. Both pups were listed on the K.C. puppy recommended breeder list. Owner did not have time to register the transfer of ownership with the K.C. �800 purchase price. The breeder�s vet knew the pups would not live as the owner had a report from them. Owner now prosecuting under small claims.
180) Choc Labrador on K.C. puppy list suffering from elbow dysplasia and gastric problems plus muscle tone has not developed so head hangs to one side. vet�s fees �3,000 plus vet meds costing �65 per month. The pup has to be caged and sedated twice a day. This breeder also sells Bulldogs
182) Doberman on K.C. recommended breeders list � cryptorchid, larynx does not function properly, neurological problems resulting in instability of back legs, muscles faded causing enlarged oesophagus. K.C. ins given for 6 weeks.
193) Weimeraner on K.C. breeder�s list. Paid �500., epilepsy, twisted gut, tumour behind eye. Vet�s fees �4,900. First fit at 4yrs of age had a DNA test.
198) K.C. Reg. Golden Retriever from J. Chapman. K.C. 6wks free ins. Dog has no hip sockets and suffers from continuous infections.
Spoke to Cocker Spaniel Club Rescue 01974 831511 who agrees that K.C. are not interested in bad breeding stock.
215) Sheltie with liver malfunction bought Aug. 05 pts Feb. 06. K.C. Reg. . Breeder refused to refund money but offered the pup�s father. Breeder Mrs. P.L. Evans, Mr. G. Williams and Miss L.A. Jones., Port Talbot. K.C. Reg.
214) Cocker Spaniel from Carol Tomlinson , �280 with renal dysplasia. Pup died 12 months later. Breeder offered one from another litter with same parents. K.,C. Reg. K.C. said nothing to do with them and advised owner to contact Cocker Spaniel Club
Spoke to Cocker Spaniel Club Rescue 01974 831511 who agrees that K.C. are not interested in bad breeding stock.
215) Sheltie with liver malfunction bought Aug. 05 pts Feb. 06. K.C. Reg. . Breeder refused to refund money but offered the pup�s father. Breeder Mrs. P.L. Evans, Mr. G. Williams and Miss L.A. Jones., Port Talbot. K.C. Reg.
214) Cocker Spaniel from Carol Tomlinson , �280 with renal dysplasia. Pup died 12 months later. Breeder offered one from another litter with same parents. K.,C. Reg. K.C. said nothing to do with them and advised owner to contact Cocker Spaniel Club
Hello,
I cannot sign up to your thread but I can lend you my support to counteract Lankeela's devotion for KC. So it's one all.
I believe the KC is nothing but a money making, paper issuing, administration machine. They will issue certificates for puppies without even checking to see if they exist. The more pups, the more pieces of paper they can sell for �15 plus.
The nature of the KC registration whereby KC dog has to be with KC dam to produce KC registered pup is just propagating inbreeding.
Anyone can become a breeder. I have known a couple, and the scams, and the dogs who are ok while breeding but when too old or need veterinary attention are soon a burden. The same people I knew who sold dogs were also the same people who were on benefits or selling drugs. A quick buck. �1000 per dog. Great!
I'll make it clear that I am NOT saying all breeders are this way inclined. Just the ones I have had the misfortune to cross paths with. Bleeding the mothers dry.
I cannot sign up to your thread but I can lend you my support to counteract Lankeela's devotion for KC. So it's one all.
I believe the KC is nothing but a money making, paper issuing, administration machine. They will issue certificates for puppies without even checking to see if they exist. The more pups, the more pieces of paper they can sell for �15 plus.
The nature of the KC registration whereby KC dog has to be with KC dam to produce KC registered pup is just propagating inbreeding.
Anyone can become a breeder. I have known a couple, and the scams, and the dogs who are ok while breeding but when too old or need veterinary attention are soon a burden. The same people I knew who sold dogs were also the same people who were on benefits or selling drugs. A quick buck. �1000 per dog. Great!
I'll make it clear that I am NOT saying all breeders are this way inclined. Just the ones I have had the misfortune to cross paths with. Bleeding the mothers dry.
good for you robotics!,I dont know anything about the KC but what I have heard,anything that can be done to stop these unsrupulous breeders should be done!,and as far as lankeelas answer goes, is anyones guess, I thought if you registered you can ask anything you like within reason,I would never own a pedigree dog because I have seen how much they cost in vets bills,I have always had mongrels myself my last dog died when he was 18yrs of age he was a cross springer and life span approx 13yrs,only seen a vet when he had injections,the dog I have now is 9 years old and in brilliant health again only seen a vet for injections and when he was castrated at 15months old,but I do give my support wholeheartedly to robotics!!!!!!!
No one keeps veterinary records of cross breeds or mongrels.
How do we know how many crossbreeds/mongrels have things like HD, epilepsy etc. How many people would even look for the conditions in mongrels - let alone test for them routinely?
I have a pedigree dog who is now 12 (very old for his breed/size) and has seen a vet three times in his life!! He has never been ill. I know plenty of 'mongrels' who have died before the age of six, also know quite a few who have temperament problems and a number who have epilepsy.
You don't know what level of 'inbreeding' occurs in mongrels, where is it written down who their grandparents etc. are?
Pups will sell whether or not they have 'papers' - just look at all these so called fashionable dogs like puggles.
Don't honestly know what you expect the KC to do?
How do we know how many crossbreeds/mongrels have things like HD, epilepsy etc. How many people would even look for the conditions in mongrels - let alone test for them routinely?
I have a pedigree dog who is now 12 (very old for his breed/size) and has seen a vet three times in his life!! He has never been ill. I know plenty of 'mongrels' who have died before the age of six, also know quite a few who have temperament problems and a number who have epilepsy.
You don't know what level of 'inbreeding' occurs in mongrels, where is it written down who their grandparents etc. are?
Pups will sell whether or not they have 'papers' - just look at all these so called fashionable dogs like puggles.
Don't honestly know what you expect the KC to do?
I think that the buyers should have a level of responsibility as well.
There is a notice in our local Tesco - Staffies for sale at about �300. If I was paying �300 for anything there is no way that a supermarket ad would entice me.
A buyer should also research the breed that they want to buy. I love bull mastiffs - but they are not a realistic breed for my to buy.
Personally I think that cross-breeds (parentage known) and mongrels (multi-pedigree!) are usually a good bet. Both my dogs have been a cross between two breeds. But buying a pedigree lets you have some indication of nature and eventual size.
The KC - I think that they are out to make a profit, but so is everybody these days - does it make them bad? I think that some of the breeds IE bull-dogs have become very unhealthy due to KC breed standards. But that happens world wide and not just in the UK.
Does the KC ban 'bad breeders'? If people only buy KC registered puppies and they knew that the breeders were vetted by the KC then perhaps that is a start. Do people who have bad experiences with breeders have the ability to report problems to the KC?
I think that most breeders are responsible and care for their animals. Genes is a complicated subject but the study of the genetic background of the parents is crucial to the health of the puppy. A good breeder is usually very knowledgeable about this subject.
This a complicated subject with no right and wrong answers.
There is a notice in our local Tesco - Staffies for sale at about �300. If I was paying �300 for anything there is no way that a supermarket ad would entice me.
A buyer should also research the breed that they want to buy. I love bull mastiffs - but they are not a realistic breed for my to buy.
Personally I think that cross-breeds (parentage known) and mongrels (multi-pedigree!) are usually a good bet. Both my dogs have been a cross between two breeds. But buying a pedigree lets you have some indication of nature and eventual size.
The KC - I think that they are out to make a profit, but so is everybody these days - does it make them bad? I think that some of the breeds IE bull-dogs have become very unhealthy due to KC breed standards. But that happens world wide and not just in the UK.
Does the KC ban 'bad breeders'? If people only buy KC registered puppies and they knew that the breeders were vetted by the KC then perhaps that is a start. Do people who have bad experiences with breeders have the ability to report problems to the KC?
I think that most breeders are responsible and care for their animals. Genes is a complicated subject but the study of the genetic background of the parents is crucial to the health of the puppy. A good breeder is usually very knowledgeable about this subject.
This a complicated subject with no right and wrong answers.
I cannot believe some of the reply' s that have been written, many of you give advice to people on here, especially when they are asking about pedigree dogs and give advice to people who had brought a pedigree puppy that have some terrible illness.
The campaign that I have got myself involved in is to help the breeders who do it for the love of the breed, and if you actually bothered to find out what work these people have done, then you understand.
Its not about stopping breeders breeding that would be an impossible task, its about getting the Kennel Club of there bottoms and helping the buyers of KC reg pups, it about the KC actually warning breeders that have complaints made about them, instead of saying to the buyer there is nothing we can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This campaign is also about getting the councils more involved with the KC and making sure that breeders are licensed......
This campaign is about the Sale of Dogs act to be changed
This campaign is about helping responsible breeders and getting rid of the bad breeders/puppy farms
If I have bought a mongrel, no I would not know of the pedigree................but I have not brought a mongel, I paid top wack for a pedigree dog, which on the surface looks like it has a good pedigree, its when you start looking at the progeny that it began worthless.
ok rant over.................I am doing this because I believe something needs to be done, and we need support not slatting.....................everyone has there dream
The campaign that I have got myself involved in is to help the breeders who do it for the love of the breed, and if you actually bothered to find out what work these people have done, then you understand.
Its not about stopping breeders breeding that would be an impossible task, its about getting the Kennel Club of there bottoms and helping the buyers of KC reg pups, it about the KC actually warning breeders that have complaints made about them, instead of saying to the buyer there is nothing we can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This campaign is also about getting the councils more involved with the KC and making sure that breeders are licensed......
This campaign is about the Sale of Dogs act to be changed
This campaign is about helping responsible breeders and getting rid of the bad breeders/puppy farms
If I have bought a mongrel, no I would not know of the pedigree................but I have not brought a mongel, I paid top wack for a pedigree dog, which on the surface looks like it has a good pedigree, its when you start looking at the progeny that it began worthless.
ok rant over.................I am doing this because I believe something needs to be done, and we need support not slatting.....................everyone has there dream
not all breeders are like this, my dog Taz a shar pei is 8 yrs old now and I am still in touch with the breeder, theres nothing wrong with my dog, never has been but we keep in touch., when he was a younger dog about 9months she came to see that he was doing okay.We were given her name by the Kennel Club, but I do agree that they in present times the KC are a money making machine.
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