Animal Sacrifice - ??

[Twinkle17]

Sorry to ask this horrible question but Im hoping to get some more clearer information. I have a Muslim friend who is going to a religious ceremony soon where they slaughter a lamb, we get into VERY heated debates about the whole thing, each just giving our opinions etc. Anyway last night he said that the lamb does not suffer and the way it is killed is is alot more humane that the way abatoirs do it (stunning the animal first) He said this is extremely cruel and the animal suffers more which if it is true why do they stun??. I know either way the poor animal will die but regarding how its done I would just appreciate some opinions cause he got very scientific on me and me being a bit dim couldnt come back with anything x

[4GS]

the lamb does not suffer and the way it is killed is is alot more humane that the way abatoirs do it
Utter cr4p!!!!.

When I was in Bosnia, we cleared a Muslim village of booby traps and anti-personell mines that the serbian army had left. It took the best part of a week before they could move back in, and they were so delighted with us that they rewarded us with a meal.

In order not to insult them we had to sit and listen while they sawed away at a lamb's throat with a serrated knife, we heard the poor thing gurgling and drowning in it's own blood. I'm sure it's eyes weren't telling me it was dying in a humane manner. It was absolutely barbaric.

I don't normally tell war stories on AB (or to anyone else) but I feel I have to retell this one, perhaps you can tell it to your muslim friend.

[Twinkle17]

Oh god, I knew these answers were going to upset me, I feel physically sick. I get so angry with him about it, he isnt actually a "friend" it is somebody that is always down the pub and I might chat with sometimes if the old religious discusion comes up. I know everybody has their opinions and religious views etc but this really really does upset me. I just dont see the point.

[4GS]

That's why I don't retell war stories
sorry if I upset you

[888sally888]

Oh my god that is so awful - I know why I am a veggie now and am so so so glad.

[smudge]

I've read about the same sort of thing John & I think it's good to make people aware of how 'barbaric' some people & their actions can be.....

[garner]

Im the same sally, it just does not bear thinking about.

[Noweia]

For meat to be eaten by Muslims, the meat must be 'Halal'. The animal should not be pre-stunned and the arteries, veins and windpipe in the neck must be cut with a smooth, single stroke. This is also similar to Jewish slaughter for 'Kosher' meat.

In abattoirs in the UK, animals are stunned first by either electricity or with a captive bolt gun which renders them insensible, then the jugulars are severed.

Being totally objective, when animals are cut properly in the Muslim and Jewish methods, often they don't appear to feel the cut - the blade should be razor sharp with no nicks and the cut should be made without pressure. If the cut edges don't come together there is little pain.

Subjectively, I think all animals should be stunned before bleeding, but that's just my opinion.

Interestingly, only the forequarters are used for 'Kosher' meat, so the rest of the animal killed by the Jewish method enters the foodchain as normal meat.

[lankeela]

Thats the procedure with killing to eat, but this is for a religious ceremony. Who's to say the 'killer' has a razor sharp blade or that they are adept at using it in a manner that will bring about a quick painless death. Don't know the implications, but is this actually legal in this country?

[Lonnie]

As John and others have pointed out, killing by the Kosher and Halal method, is cruelty beyond measure.

I'm Jewish, but I do not eat Kosher meat, I think this link may go someway to explaing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2977086.stm

[bensmum]

I doubt if this is an argument you will win Twinkle, as he will say that it has to be done like that for religious purposes. However, in this day and age I don't really see why these sort of customs should be maintained. There should surely be a better method.

[Twinkle17]

Hi everyone, thanks for your answers, makes you feel ashamed to be human really doesnt it, these poor defensless animals go through hell just for "religious beliefs" etc.
The particular ceremony he is attending is in Morocco but not sure about the legalities of it in England. My Mums friend said when she lived in London about 25/30 years ago, she remembers a lamb being slaughtered in the street next to them for religious beliefs and said it still haunts her to this day the torture the animal went through. So sad and (I feel) completely unnecessary. Thanks again for your answersx

[wildwood]

Killing another animal for the sake of a ceremony is horrible in itself. Any religion which supports this has no place in western society.

[Ice.Maiden]

Sadly, whether it's for religious reasons or strictly for food, there's no pleasant way to kill an animal. You wouldn't like it if you watched them die in an abattoir, either, and although we're having pheasant on the table this Christmas, a shot doesn't always kill them outright. I think we have to accept that if we eat meat, then the animal's had to suffer at our expense. I don't wish to comment about the other reasons.

[horselady]

This certainly makes upsetting reading, poor animals. When I was a little kid I used to always say when I grew up I wanted to be a farmer's wife. As I grew up I realised I couldn't bear to send any animal off to the slaughterhouse so I would end up with a farm full of geriatric cows and sheep!

[billybiglift]

All you veggies cannot have tasted a bacon sandwich, they are beautiful., and i would personally catch and kill the pig to make it. If you put a strong light behind a vegitarian, you can see through them.

[robotics]

How pathetic that in this day and age where everyone has an opinion that they cannot respect another. I accept in certain situations there is a need for compromise but when it comes to humanities self preservation, is there really any need to hide the basic elements of survival to the younger generation?

As a society are we saying it is more acceptable to televise a soap opera that is supposed to be entertaining in a true to life scenario that shows murders and rapes than to educate on the true reality of where a leg of lamb comes from? As a nation, we really need to toughen up and stop pussy-footing around issues.

Isn't it the catholics who preach "lamb of God you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us"

[perigra]

i've seen a lamb killed using a long sharp knife.
i was releved to see that it didn't seem to experience any pain.