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thanks all, I'm torn for BA but fred edges it, wolf that German Sheppard looked crippled to me, if that's best of breed then there is something very wrong. You are correct Lady, if people didn't buy them then they wouldn't be bred. I always get rescue dogs for a donation. Just lost one of mine so my other one is lonely so we are looking round and just seen a love little jack today so I'm waiting for a home inspectioin now.