Weren’T There Beautiful People In The Past?

[bainbrig]

Portraiture up until say 1550/1600 seems always to portray ugly people.

Was it just lack of technique, or were our distant ancestors really so plain?

BB

[pastafreak]

I can't do links on my Phone, but if you Google "15th c portrait painting " the images are astonishing...many are beautiful. To me anyway. And not really that different from today.

[Mamyalynne]

An interesting site here.

https://www.portraittimeline.com/

Throughout the ages portraiture has gone through cycles from almost deifying the sitter to warts and all and everything in between.

There have always been beautiful people, but not all beautiful people had their portrait painted.

[Flonska]

Don't forget also . . . . "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!"

[bainbrig]

Pastafreak. Thanks for the pointer. One which blew me away was Giovanni Antonio Boltraffio‘s young woman. Beautiful, and near-photographic in its brilliance.

Did the Greeks do any two-dimensional representations of the human face?

[vetuste_ennemi]

//Did the Greeks do any two-dimensional representations of the human face?//

Yes.here's a famous arti st of the Classical period:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeuxis

[vetuste_ennemi]

...and you will have noted that the Greeks sculpted a bit. The Venus de Milo? The Aphrodite of Cnidus?

[bainbrig]

Well, from that description the works of Zeuxis could revolutionise art history, if ever any came to light - questioning the orthodoxy of the invention of perspective, for example.

I specifically asked about two-dimensional forms, because of the brilliance of their statuary.

BB

[Old_Geezer]

Selective breeding means we should all be improving.
Better health service helps too. As does adequate nutrition. Realising what does harm and stopping going it must play it's bit too.

[Old_Geezer]

Painings can be flattering, especially if the painter has rich patrons.

[sunny-dave]

"Portraiture up until say 1550/1600 seems always to portray ugly people"

This is undoubtedly true - I always refuse to let anyone paint me until after 4pm as I look a complete fright until then ...

[bainbrig]

This was the link to which pasta’s direction led me:

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=1FsNW_njIJG1sAe_7pSICQ&q=Giovanni+Antonio+Boltraffio&oq=Giovanni+Antonio+Boltraffio&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.3..0l2j0i22i30l3.7650.7650..9476...0....88.88.1......0....1j2.......3..41.KnH0TmGe9E0%3D#imgrc=YW88sDZC5OGOfM:

Sorry, can’t do a tiny for some reason.

Anyway, click on that link and see how my question was refuted and answered!

BB

[pastafreak]

I stumbled on this when I was googling portraits. It's neither beautiful, or handsome. But extraordinarily accomplished for something dated 1425.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_a_Fat_Man#/media/File%3AMaster_of_Fl%C3%A9malle_-_Portrait_of_a_Fat_Man_-_Google_Art_Project_(331318).jpg

[Mamyalynne]

That's marvellous Pasta.

[pastafreak]

Here's another dated 1430 by the same painter...

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/robert-campin-a-woman

[johnny.5]

whistler's mother is gorgeous
yeah right !

[jno]

that much accuracy suggests painters were using a camera obscura. Hockney's written a very good book on the subject of visual aids, Secret Knowledge.

[Canary42]

Eve in 1507 !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve_(Dürer)#/media/File:Albrecht_Dürer_-_Adam_and_Eve_(Prado)_2.jpg

[bainbrig]

I don’t think ANY sort of visual aid (camera obscura etc) could turn an average artist into some as brilliant as those, particularly of the Fat Man.

[1ozzy]

A lot of "selfies" these days make the subject look good.

Modern cosmetics and technology play a big part.

[jno]

probably not, bainbrig, but it was surprising how much better the good artists became.

Compare the first and third pictures on this page, both by Durer and a year apart. There's a sharp difference in quality - the second could almost be a photo. (I realise photorealism isn't necessarily what a painter is aiming at, but it's a fair bet Durer had the same goal in mind with both)

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/197173289906096929/

Another pair Hockney compared was two Leonardos
https://tinyurl.com/y72s33qu
https://tinyurl.com/yarlfsge

But that might be accounted for by the 30 year gap between the two; he might have acquired a visual aid or he might just have learnt more.