1984 …

[naomi24]

… by George Orwell. Anyone read it - and if so what were your impressions and is it relevant to what is happening today? The condemnation and destruction of history, the suppression of ideas that oppose the ideals of the ‘woke’, and the insistence in some quarters that two plus two really does equal five - all of that I think we are now witnessing.

Your thoughts?

[pixie374]

13:27, Jim, some posts aren't worth taking seriously.

[naomi24]

Jim, Be neutral, instead.//

Nonsense! You’re not neutral.

//After a passionate plea against destruction of our own culture, it would be sad indeed to dismiss the destruction of others'//

Who’s dismissing it?

[Zacs-Master]

'The past is done.'

Not if you're black and living with stately homes built from plantation money and statues of slave masters who subjugated your ancestors.

[naomi24]

It's done.

[Zacs-Master]

It patently isn't for black people, Naomi. You'd have to be seriously in denial to believe that.

[naomi24]

:o)

[jim360]

Strive to be neutral, then.

The idea that the past is "done", though, is sadly blinkered. It manifestly isn't. Doesn't even deserve any further comment.

[naomi24]

//Strive to be neutral, then. //

Stop preaching Jim. You're not neutral.

//Doesn't even deserve any further comment. //

Is that a promise?

[jim360]

I'm so glad I have you to explain how I think. I'd never understand my own thoughts otherwise.

[Zacs-Master]

What's with the smiley face, N? You know you're in the wrong here just stop doing your usual thing of making light of something when you're clearly in the wrong, it does you no favours.

[naomi24]

Jim, I read your posts - and do stop preaching. I am not neutral - and clearly neither are you.

[naomi24]

Your dubious skills with the wooden spoon have, for the second time on this thread, made me laugh, zacs.

[iluvmargie]

13:31, especially yours.

[Zacs-Master]

There;s no wooden spoon, Naomi. You could call anyone's argument a wooden spoon, that's just childish. If you come back to me with a coherent argument why you don't understand that statues and stately homes are offensive to some black people rather than emojis we can maybe move this forward. As it is, I'm debating with a prepubescent schoolgirl.

[jim360]

It's a shame that reading my posts seems to lead to you reaching the exact opposite conclusion of everything I actually say.

"Striving to be neutral" in this case would be a better way of putting it, I'll accept: it's too much to hope for a genuinely impassive view of history. But excessive pride is as damaging as, if not more so than, excessive condemnation. If you're overly proud then you'll continually repeat the mistakes of the past. We shouldn't be "proud" of the nation's role in slavery, regardless of the fact that more or less every other nation at the time was up to their neck in it. The legacy of centuries of exploitation is not going to die away so readily if you choose to be "proud" of that period.

[Togo]

//what's with this Conspiracy theory BS?//

The Founder of blm, Patrisse Cullors( not pastel colours then?) Says "We are trained Marxists". The theory, that this is something other than saving the Aboriginal or Neanderthal heritage sites or a new movement to bring momentum to a long past injustice, is not a conspiracy....she boast of being a trained Marxist. Trained by whom?
It is about the violent hard left wing anarchists and always was.

[naomi24]

Jim, One could be forgiven for thinking you’re about to take the cloth. I don’t choose to be neutral, just as you don’t choose to be neutral, so to pretend otherwise it utterly disingenuous. You have very definite opinions as is evidenced by your posts - which incidentally, I do not misunderstand. Doubtless there have been many times after the event where you may have wished me to, but I don’t. Yes, I am proud of my country - which is why I object to witnessing it being crushed under the hobnail boots of the mindless - but pride in this nation’s role in the slave trade? You can only have come by that at the bottom of one of many barrels you have a habit of ducking in and out of.

Togo, the horse’s mouth… which leads me back to the OP and the extraordinary willingness of the ‘woke’ to embrace that which anyone with an iota of political awareness would have no hesitation in kicking as far into touch as is humanly possible.

[jim360]

You're welcome to whatever opinion you like about my posts, but you misunderstand me frequently, whether intentionally or not, and insisting as you do otherwise does yourself no favours. I know what my intentions are and I make them clear, so there is no weight either in the bizarre idea that I "may have wished [you] to" misunderstand. Nothing could be further from the truth: it is exasperating to be so perpetually misunderstood and so have my views so constantly misrepresented.

[naomi24]

I read your posts... that's all.

[Tilly2]

This has moved on. What year are we in now?