News1 min ago
Narolines
13 Answers
Did you see 'Balderdash & Piffle' on BBC 2 yesterday evening? It is a programme, presented by Victoria Coren of 'The Observer', looking into the etymology of words and phrase development.
The novelty aspect of the show is that Ms Coren presents her findings to three 'judges' who actually work in senior positions for The Oxford English Dictionary (TOED).
Most of her results failed to pass their test for inclusion in the dictionary but one succeeded. She put back by about ten years the date of the earliest recorded use of 'ploughman's lunch'. It will now appear in the next edition.
Obviously, I am contacting you here to make it clear that TOED does accept convincing proof that their dating is wrong. So, I hope you do approach them with your information about Morris Dancing, as discussed earlier in this category. What Coren can do, Narolines can do better! Why not? Good luck once again! Cheers
The novelty aspect of the show is that Ms Coren presents her findings to three 'judges' who actually work in senior positions for The Oxford English Dictionary (TOED).
Most of her results failed to pass their test for inclusion in the dictionary but one succeeded. She put back by about ten years the date of the earliest recorded use of 'ploughman's lunch'. It will now appear in the next edition.
Obviously, I am contacting you here to make it clear that TOED does accept convincing proof that their dating is wrong. So, I hope you do approach them with your information about Morris Dancing, as discussed earlier in this category. What Coren can do, Narolines can do better! Why not? Good luck once again! Cheers
Answers
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Such cynicism, J, and so early in the new year! The thing is, though, that - despite Victoria's being a very pretty lady with a well-known father - the experts (rightly) refused to countenance the other 'successes' she claimed to have.
I think her single victory based on indisputable evidence reveals that however ugly and masculine you may be, Narolines, and however unknown your father is, they'll still listen to you if you are convincing. (I'm not at all suggesting that you actually are ugly or even masculine, N!)
I think her single victory based on indisputable evidence reveals that however ugly and masculine you may be, Narolines, and however unknown your father is, they'll still listen to you if you are convincing. (I'm not at all suggesting that you actually are ugly or even masculine, N!)
Blimey - I'm suddenly a question! Yes, I did see said programme and said delightful young lady, and the same thought had occurred to me. For future reference, I am male, and of a certain age, as they say, though I do not feel qualified to judge my own degree of attractiveness or otherwise! My father was certainly known to me - though he was just an ordinary working bloke and has been dead for 25 years, so I suppose his chances of fame are now slim.
Just a few boring points:
1. Like most interesting TV programmes, 'Balderdash & Piffle' has been stolen from Radio 4. (Anyone who's familiar with 'Word of Mouth' will know what I mean).
2. The OED has always accepted contributions and suggestions from us 'mere mortals'. (An early foreruuner of Wikipedia, perhaps?).
3. There's some interesting stuff about the OED here:
http://www.oed.com/about/writing/
(The page itself isn't particularly informative but the links are).
4. How dare Jno refer to Alan Coren merely as 'well-known'! As someone who collects every word he's ever written, I wish to inform Jno that he's England's greatest living writer! (Oh, OK, Cricklewood's greatest living writer anyway!).
Chris
1. Like most interesting TV programmes, 'Balderdash & Piffle' has been stolen from Radio 4. (Anyone who's familiar with 'Word of Mouth' will know what I mean).
2. The OED has always accepted contributions and suggestions from us 'mere mortals'. (An early foreruuner of Wikipedia, perhaps?).
3. There's some interesting stuff about the OED here:
http://www.oed.com/about/writing/
(The page itself isn't particularly informative but the links are).
4. How dare Jno refer to Alan Coren merely as 'well-known'! As someone who collects every word he's ever written, I wish to inform Jno that he's England's greatest living writer! (Oh, OK, Cricklewood's greatest living writer anyway!).
Chris
This wasnt the programme that insisted that gay meant jolly, the Gay Nineties, were not louche and sexually liberated (Cleveland St etc) and that Oscar Wilde was not a notorious mummy's boy, but a happily married man with two kids ?
Not to mention that when Elizabeth called Drake a 'gay dog', she did in fact mean 'he whistleth the live long day' and not something completely different.
Yeah I saw a bit of it.....
I thought she made a bit of pigs ear over 'pig'. I thought it was obviously from porcus, and perhaps piglet from porculus.
Dog is much better - Dog pops up around 1000 years ago from nowhere. Canis venaticus - hunting dog - gives us hound and hund - its venaticus, in case people cant see how canis become hund.....
but who am I to judge ?
PP - at times you do come out with some rather confounding and ludicrous statements.
Pig does not derive from porcus (pork does via Norman French!)
Dog does not derive from canis
Similarly
Cow does not derive from bos
Sheep does not derive from ovis
Chicken does not derive from gallus
The English names for the vast majority of domesticated animals are Old or Middle English in origin (i.e. more likely to have evolved from another North European language), whereas any meat they produce is from the Norman French. This is because the 'English' serfs tended the animal whilst the Norman lords ate the meat.
Pig does not derive from porcus (pork does via Norman French!)
Dog does not derive from canis
Similarly
Cow does not derive from bos
Sheep does not derive from ovis
Chicken does not derive from gallus
The English names for the vast majority of domesticated animals are Old or Middle English in origin (i.e. more likely to have evolved from another North European language), whereas any meat they produce is from the Norman French. This is because the 'English' serfs tended the animal whilst the Norman lords ate the meat.
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