Derivative

[Allen Crisp]

This is really following on from the recent question about the Harry Potter series (I think they're excellent and my children enjoy them greatly). A few years ago, the judges of a book prize (Whitbread, I think) refused to award Harry the title of book of the year because it is 'derivative'. They then gave the prize to Seamus Heaney with a translation of 'Beowulf'. Isn't a translation of an Anglo-Saxon poem as 'derivative' as you can get? In any case, isn't everyone influenced to some extent by what's happened in the past? Can anyone explain how much of a plagiarist you have to be before you are derided as 'derivative'?

[sft42]

Personally I class someone as a plagarist when a series of previous books featuring chartacters called Larry Potter, muggles and a long list of other similarities to her books had appear in the early 80s.......but everyone can make their own decisions on this......and a barage of High-Price lawyers in the US usually helps to try and stop the mud from sticking.

[Waterwolf]

I'll answer Allen's question properly in a minute, but first I want to repsond to sft42's comment. From what I've read about Nancy Stouffer's books about Larry Potter bear very little resemblence to the Harry Potter series; take a look at this review: http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/muggles.h
tm (Incidentally, the OED has references to the word 'muggle' going back to 1205.) Stouffer's case was thrown out of court; there's no basis for those charges of plagiarism.

[Waterwolf]

Now to answer the question. I think it had nothing to do with the Harry Potter books being derivative or otherwise, it was all literary snobbery. The literary establishment wouldn't dream of giving a major award to a children's book, and a fantasy at that, especially one as popular as Harry Potter (yes, I know they did exactly that with Philip Pullman, but look at the stink that caused). I don't see how it'e even possible to compare Harry Potter with a translation of Beowulf; they are in completely different fields.

[Waterwolf]

Oops, missed out the last parts of your question. Yes, all books are influenced by earlier sources; whether something is derivative or not is often subjective, and depends on what image you want to create of the book, which is what made me think of literary snobbery. The Harry Potter books are chock full of influences (not all concious ones, I think) from mythology and English school stories and other sources besides. And when writers draw on the same traditional themes, it's inevitable that there will be similarities. It's whether you put a new spin on them or fit them together in new ways that counts.