Do you consider art ....

[BertiWooster]

.....to be a subjective thing ?

What is the definition of art ?

- Do you consider the following to be art ?

-an unmade bed

- a pile of sand in the middle of a room .

Would it be considered art if joe bloggs deposited a pile of sand in the middle of a room ? .

Who decides what is art ?

[Buenchico]

That might be a valid point, TT, but surely the converse isn't true. There are plenty of works of art which aren't necessarily pleasing to the eye. Such disturbing pictures as Edvard' Munch's 'The Scream' come to mind here, as does Mark Ryden's 'Fountain':
http://data1.blog.de/...-Mark-Ryden_small.jpg

Chris

[BertiWooster]

I'll tell you what currently ( just to show that i'm not only influenced by ' traditional ' art ) gets my attention - and that is some of the the recent crop of buildings that has gone up in the this part of the world

http://www.e-architec...k/dubai_buildings.php

I was watching a documentary recently about that round shape building that was recently completed ( cant remember the name - in saudi arabia - i think ) - now that really grabbed my attention

[boxtops]

I can't remember who said (and these are not the exact words) "only keep things in your home which please you or are useful" - this is how I feel about art and lovely things (IMO), and why my stairwell is plastered with framed pictures, and how come I have so much Stuff....

[Buenchico]

I just love 20th & 21st century architecture, Berti.

Of course there'splenty of rubbish but there's also so much to enjoy. I'll sometimes turn a corner of a street and just have to stand for several minutes to admire the spectacle that's in front of me.

Developments which take the best of the old and combine it with the latest of the new are often the best. If I travel to London I'll often visit St Pancras International station just to stand in awe at how it's been transformed:
http://www.tipsfortra...as-international.html

I'm trying to work out which building, in Saudi Arabia, you're referring to. The OIC Headquarters, perhaps?
http://www.archicentr...ler-architects-23238/

Chris

[hogbody]

'I don't know much about art but I know what I like.'

I'm sure that's a p-take quote from somewhere.

[Andyvon]

What often strikes me when I see many works of art (especially modern) is how readily people are prepared to accept what they see. I really believe it's simply because they are told by the artists and gallery that it is actually art. Allow me to attempt to illustrate my point.

I often imagine the reaction if I announced to my family that I had taken up a new hobby - art. I then imagine somehow showing one of the works displayed in a modern gallery as my first effort. I know my family would fall about laughing and tell me not to give up the day job! However, by the definitions given in several of the other posts, my effort would actually be classed as art. So why do similarly wierd efforts in galleries get taken so seriously when I would be laughed out of court for producing much the same thing?

[Buenchico]

If we're going to start trading quotes, I'll go with Paul Gauguin:
"Art is either a plagiarist or a revolutionist".

That's what I meant with my reference to Kieron Williamson earlier. At 8 years old, he's clearly incredibly talented but (unsurprisingly) still working as a 'plagiarist', imitating the landscapes, etc of artists like Constable and Turner. I look forward to his teen years when, hopefully, we'll see the 'revolutionist' come out in him, producing stunning and original works.

Chris

[BertiWooster]

This is the one chris

http://wn.com/abu_dhabi_round_building

[BertiWooster]

//..So why do similarly wierd efforts in galleries get taken so seriously when I would be laughed out of court for producing much the same thing? //


Andyvon - That's the question I asked earlier

// We all know the 'artist' whose unmade bed was considered art - so why would it not be considered art if Joe Bloggs did it ? //

[Buenchico]

Oh THAT one:
http://www.realestate...s-assets/aldar-HQ.jpg

Yes, it's certainly different. Although, to be honest, I still prefer London's 'Gherkin':
http://lfp-blog.com/w...herkin-building_2.jpg

Chris

[jno]

Chris, my bet is that Emin's unmade bed was not literally one she'd just got out of but a representation of one, lifesize and made from various authentic materials. Is it perhaps possible for something to be too authentic to be art?

I like the Gherkin and am okay with the Cheese Grater, but I think the Walkie Talkie, recently given the go-ahead, is thuggish

http://londonist.com/...churchStreet_pic9.jpg

[Mosaic]

A working artist once said to me that he believed 'art' was defined by art dealers. Another insightful quote I came acoss years ago is that 'the bourgeoisie adopted art in order to make it into a barrier'.
I think these describe the contemporary art scene in England to a T - ie if you don't 'get' it it's because you're too thick, too unrefined, too uneducated......and the same coterie pours scorn on people and creative works that aren't in their dealer-defined mould.
I once worked in an art gallery where an 'exhibition' was actually blue powder paint scattered round the edges of the room, which the 'artist' then trailed her fingers in. Sadly nobody informed the cleaner and it all got hoovered up at 7.00 am on day one.

[jno]

if artists choose to put themselves into the hands of dealers (and most do), then tough luck, I'd say, Mosaic. Once you get on the gravy train it's hard to get off - but most want to sell their work, and that means they're making money more than they're making art. Their choice, though.

[Mosaic]

Absolutely Jno, but I there is still a huge gulf between what sells as art to 'ordinary' people, and what is deemed to be art by, say, the Royal Society or Saatchi.

[jno]

there's also quite a big difference between Saatchi and the Royal Academy. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. (So my answer to Berti's original question is yes, it's subjective).

[Khandro]

I think you are asking the wrong question, the only issue is do you think it is good or bad art? - a qualitative decision. Marcel Duchamp said there is only good art and bad art, but bad art is still art. I personally adopted this stance many years ago and it has saved me many hours of meaningless discourse.

[askyourgran]

For some reason we have in Leeds an award winning building that has beaten the Burj el Arab building in Dubai, http://www.yorkshiree...ted-the-best.6597090.

I even submitted a letter to the YEP shortly after it was built saying what an eyesore I thought it was. Quite a few agreed but it seems that it is considered 'art'.

[Answerprancer]

Appreciation of art is very much in the eye/mind of the beholder IMO, I hate with vigour the notion of having the appreciation of art explained to me by some 'afficionado'.

[society]

What's art to 'you' is crap to me. The sculptures, drawings, paintings etc. which some considers to be art has no appeal whatsoever to me and is rubbish in my opinion.