Question Author
sorry for the delay in replying to you .
thanks for your answers
It was confirmed that it is the cartilagle by a friend a few years ago (he is a physotherapist)
but it is only the pass few weeks that it has caused me any pain the best way to dicribe it is
If you sit in a chair with you foot just off the ground place your hand on the knee cap then slowly rise your foot to level with your hip.
As you do this you can feel though your hand the sensation of grinding glass. although this is not painful.
The only times it is painfull is when going from kneeling or crouching to standing up.
cheers