Late People

[Loosehead]

Can anyone explain why certain people are always late? I have a friend that no matter what warning you give will always be late, it drives me mad. I sometimes go around to pick him up to go somewhere and I'm always on time, he's never ready, I mean what are they thinking? I'm going out at 7pm so that's when I'll start getting ready. I suppose it drives me mad because I'm have a fear of being late so I'm always early or on time. Do "late people" have a fear of being early or are they trying to be "fashionably late"? I think it's very rude, I have other friends who are more like me and if there's a chance they'll be late they phone as do I. So come on you late people why are you late?

[ursula62]

BBonio - My comments were directed at whoever said earlier in the thread that they were on time for things that were "critical".

If that was you then I ask again, why don't you consider the feelings of your friends and family to be as important as something that's "critical"?

Presumably if you had spent money on tickets to a football match or concert you would be on time for that? Surely your loved ones are as important if not more so?

[stoo_pid]

We've got a mate that is always late.  His record for being late is two days.  Yes, you read that correctly, two days.  He always has an excuse - traffic, alien abduction, cat on fire, etc but no matter what time he leaves (sorry, that should read: claims to leave) he can never get anywhere on time.

We actually ending up living together for a few months so I had a perfect opportunity to observe why he was so tardy.  And in his case it was simply because he just faffed about all the time.  Usually he'd be wandering around the house in his pants looking for a missing shoe but then he'd start to make phone calls or watch a bit of TV or send some emails - all while I was completely ready & waiting to leave.  One time we were still in the house at 7:55pm when we were supposed to meet a mate at Liverpool Street station (a minimum of 40 minutes away) at 8pm.  When I pointed out that we were very late he replied that actually we weren't late at all & wouldn't be until 8:01pm.  Aaaargh!

[kaktus]

In general I 'm on time, but odds of me being late is bigger than me being early.

But I would like to point out that I find people arriving  early just as irritating as when people arrive late. If I wanted a person to see my messy apartment, me running around in my knickers etc. I wouldn't have invited that person to come around earlier!

[newtron]

My wife and I are like Obonio.  We tend to be late for things we class as  not critical.  Our friends know that we are usually late and accept it.  I think this attitude only works if you don't mind others being late to functions that you invite them to.  In other words, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.    

[Loosehead]

But what I can't understand, Obonio, newtron etc, is do you have to make a special effort to be late or do you just faff around. I suppose what I'm trying to understand is that when something is "critical" what do you do then that you don't normally do? Is its a way of thinking? is there a different approach to the event? Ok imagine I invite you round for dinner at 8. What are your thought processes that determine that it is not important that you arrive at 8?

[Gevs1966]

It's not a conscious decision to be late, it just happens. The easy living approach, being chilled out and the whole what's the rush characteristic means that people may "faff" around but like I say above it is NOT a conscious decision or bad attitude. These people maybe don't see it as being rude because of this. 

When it is something critical as mentioned it then becomes a conscious decision to be on time, maybe because of the potential consequences involved.

 

As I have said before, it is only peoples perceptions that make it rude which is very wrong! Just like it is only peoples perceptions of organised people being uptight which is also very wrong!

[elgroucho]

The comment by Becks sums it up for me "I don't care". This is what annoys the hell out of us people who turn up on time. Sure it has nothing to do with upbringing, but it has  everything to do with atitude. All those I've known who have a casual attitude towards timekeeping have the same sort of personality, see Gevs informed comments. However, this point about perception is a slightly tricky one. I fully understand the point that is made so don't require someone to spell it back out for me, but when we want to reach a conclusion about this in a who is right and who is wrong situation, you would have to say that those with the casual attitude don't have a leg to stand on. Would you be late for someone else's wedding/funeral etc? I would doubt it. Would you arrive late for the bus or train? You can if you like but they certainly aren't going to wait for you. In other words if you can see that you can make time for these sorts of things, then why not do the same when meeting someone in an everyday situation as it's just the same in terms of showing respect.

[newtron]

That's a good question Loosehead.  The reasons for being late vary, but I guess ultimately, if the situation is not crtiical, either the preplanning is not taken as seriously or unexpected interuptions are allowed to have more of an impact on my time of arrival.  For example,  Many times, right before I am leaving for an appointment at some point, I will get a phone call from an old friend who I have not talked to in long time.  If the appointment is critical, I will tell my friend that I have to go and that I will call him back, but if it is not critical, I will probably stay and talk for a little while.  Actually, now that I am thinking about it.  I usually have unexpected company just before I am planning to leave (no joke).  I guess many people would consider people who drop by unexpectedly to be rude, but I don't.  This was when I lived somehere where I had friends.  Since I have moved to the UK and don't have many friends yet, I do seem to be on time most of the time. Hmm...

[OBonio]

why don't you consider the feelings of your friends and family to be as important as something that's "critical"?

Who said I don't?  I think you are confusing the context of what I deem critical.  I was referring to the situation being critical, not the feelings of the people involved.

I obviously make up for my lateness in other ways, as my family and friends really do love/like/respect* me.  They accept me for who I am, not whether I get to the pub to buy the first round or not.

* delete as applicable

[Loosehead]

Thanks Newtron, I'm beginning to see. I'ts a strange thing but I absolutely hate people turning up un announced, I need prep time, I need to know that someone is comming round, must be linked to the late/early thing. Thing is people I know know that so they never turn up un announced because, although I'm not rude they can sense my irritation.

Takes all sorts....

[Frankie Babe]

but newtron - why answer the phone if you're on the way to meet someone else when you know there's a good chance it will delay you?  (Incidientally for those of us that are punctual we're never in the house to hear that last minute phone call.)

[Loosehead]

good one Frankie, I never answer the phone when I'm about to leave, never! Disastrous!

[newtron]

Habbit, curiosity....  I'm easily distracted.

[Gevs1966]

some people might percieve that as rude....

 

Elgroucho, as I have said in earlier posts, certain subconscious character traits can be adapted to certain situations but you can't change a characteristic indefinitely. It is not natural. Like I said it would be like asking an organised person to never ever plan anything again, they just wouldn't be able to do it as the characteristic is formed inately.

 

You mention that the late people don't have a leg to stand on and this goes back to my point about peoples perceptions. An "in timer" (see earlier posts for definition) would percieve the situation to be the opposite of you and thats is where the problems arise.

"through timers" have to understand that "in timers" just don't see things the way they do and vice versa and everyone has to understand that these are NOT conscious decisions but mere character traits.

There are many other examples of similar working traits such as passiveness/aggression, optimism/pescimism. All things that cna be adapted for certain situations but people will always swing to one side or the other subconsciously.

[OBonio]

you would have to say that those with the casual attitude don't have a leg to stand on

I wouldn't say that myself.  Some perfectly valid arguments on both sides I think.

At the end of the day it's just personality types.  No controlling it unfortunately. 

I'm married to an 'on time, organized' person (think Monica from Friends).  I drive her mad sometimes with my laid back attitude.  At other times though, it's a god send.  I keep my head more in panic stricken situations.  On the other hand, it takes me 4 times as long to do the tidying.  C'est la vie.

[elgroucho]

Gevs, I said I understood these informed comments and didn't need them repeated. Perhaps I'm not getting my point across properly. Sure I acknowledge perception exists, but where is the cut-off? If somebody is carefree about appointments then there must be a point where that is said to be wrong, i.e. if somebody is 1 hour late for a funeral say, then are you telling me that I am perceiving them to be late, or are they actually late? The simple, and correct answer is that they are late. Now translate this into a evryday situation. I invite you to my house for dinner at 8 and you arrive at 9. Are you or are you not late? You are in fact late, you may have a perfectly good excuse in which case I heartily forgive you, but by definition you are late nonetheless. This I would argue is not in my perception of things, but in solid fact.

[Gevs1966]

Without meaning to offend I think you do need it spelled out because you are missing the point I am making. I agree that if you are late you are late simple as that. The point about perception is not to argue whether someone is late or not. The perception part relates to the assumptions made about that person. They would be perceived as rude or lazy etc but this is not neccesarily the case.

As I keep repeating, these are subconscious character traits which can be adapted somewhat for certain situations and it would be highly unlikely that someone would be that late to a funeral/wedding without good reason as this would be consciously viewed as critical (see reasoning above).

 

Likewise the perception will often be wrong when you reverse the roles and situations eg someone being meticulously organised and early.

[smudge]

Reading all these posts has made me late for my hairdressing appointment - I'd better get me skates on! :0)

[elgroucho]

Well Gevs, you have perceived that I don't understand this concept, but I have not. I have probably attended the same lectures (maybe you were giving them) as lots of people on this subject, and read the books too. So I'll try and spell out what I mean again, as I probably haven't put it across as clearly as I could (and believe me that is more of a frustration for me than it is for you)!



I am not saying this concept is nonsense, I accept it is true and it exists, and have twice stated that you are well-informed on this as you clearly are (there you go that's three times, and sorry if you take that as being passive aggressive, but I genuinely mean it). I'm not taking you on in an argument on perception because we both agree. All I am saying is that there comes a point where, concepts aside, facts should be looked at. I'm just trying to separate fact and concept.

We could be, in fact probably are, going round in circles here. It could be argued that most of the problems in the world today come down to our point of view. Remember how the 9/11 attacks were cheered in some parts of the world because it was perceived as a way of getting back at what is perceived as an evil nation in some countries. One man's terrorist is another's hero etc. Not the best example I know, but probably the easiest to get my point across.

All I am trying to say is there is a point where, subconcious personality traits etc. aside, the indefensible cannot be defended whether it be in terms of lateness or anything else you care to mention.

A sense of what is fundamentally right and wrong, correct and incorrect, must kick-in somewhere no matter what our perception is.

Please don't miss my point, I assure you I haven't missed yours.

[Gevs1966]

I understand your point clearly and we are indeed agreeing on many things. However, what you personally would define as fundamentaly wrong eg being late, may not be viewed the same way or to the same extent by others.  eg Is it really fundamentally wrong to be late when it doesn't really matter too much in the long run?

 

I think late people or "in timers" accept the fact that they should be on time for critical things and this is where the line is drawn. It is obviously again down to personal opinion as to what is seen as critical. The majority would see similar things as being critical, job interview, wedding etc etc. This is where the adaptations to the character trait come in. However, a social event such as drinks or dinner would have a more whats the rush? or chill out approach to someone with an "in time" personality as that is how they would subconsciously view it.

 

I think it would be quite hard to draw a line for the boundries to either side of the debate as to what is right or wrong as the two sides of the character have different views on what is actually right or wrong.

 

This would be a great discussion after a few pints!