Why Are Medics Etc Still Using B M I?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/42993144/dorset-schoolgirl-lost-confidence-after-fat-letter
ridiculously silly measurement in my opinion, surely body fat percentage is a much more useful measure. The kid in the link has now been put off sport, surely that was not the intention. It's time the medical profession dropped this increasingly irrelevant measure.

[ummmm]

My son got a fat letter. I just threw it in the bin. He wasn't overweight. I agree...BMI is useless.

[woofgang]

I don't think its so much why medics are allowed to use BMI as why there is a compulsory national body measurement program in schools?

[Mamyalynne]

Tick box health care, more trouble than good.

[ToraToraTora]

years ago when I played rugby I had a body composition test. I calculated that I was still obese under BMI if I had 0% body fat!

[EcclesCake]

Many elite athletes are considered obese according to the BMI scale, it is bonkers.

[jourdain2]

Eldest daughter(6ft. tall) represented England internationally at High Jump. She still keeps extremely fit, trains for netball, plays competitively and also has punishing gym sessions at least once a week. She is, apparently, fat according to her BMI! Time this tick-box obsession (a French speciality, believe me) stopped. One look at a person or child should be enough.

[woofgang]

its not just the BMI issue. I know a family with two children. Same good diet diet same everything. one swims, dances, plays sport and so on and is definitely round, the other is like a rake. Happily they live abroad and aren't subject to this body judgement. I could imagine there being ructions from the parents if they were.

[woofgang]

I know about tick box healthcare. Got invited to the "Older persons' MOT" binned the invite. Happily my surgery is sensible and didn't push it. Last time I went to the GP, I met a new recruit, nice bloke. He pulled up my record on the computer and said "Hmmm you have no notes" I said "no I don't come here often and like it that way" He said "yes so do we"

[jourdain2]

:) woof x

[jim360]

I believe the limitations of BMI for *individual* measurements are well-known -- although, perhaps, not so well-publicised as they should be, if the story TTT links to is anything to go by.

On the other hand, taking BMI averages over a community provides a safe, easy-to-use and fairly accurate assessment of whether the society as a whole is (on average) over- or underweight.

As long as it's used sensibly, and in the context of the person's health and activity as a whole, then there's no harm in using BMI as a useful guide -- particularly for anyone at the extremes of the scale -- but no more than that. In that sense, I clearly would disagree with informing children of the results of "National Child Measurement Programme", and it should really be restricted to informing (but not determining) government policy on school meals, school PE lessons, etc etc.

[woofgang]

jourdain he asked to take my blood pressure and I let him. I like to see young people enjoy themselves

[youngmafbog]

Asked mu doctor daughter about this some time ago. Her attitude is that it is just one tool in the tool box and not appropriate for everyone.

//why there is a compulsory national body measurement program in schools?//

Unfortunately we have many irresponsible parents. The choice is to allow the parents to stuff them with no exercise and get obese or try and catch it in time before that happens along with any health issues. It's a fine line.

//"no I don't come here often and like it that way" He said "yes so do we" //

Thats ok, but my doctor gave me a right rollocking for not coing in regularly and not coming in in time if I have a bad cold. (I am severely asthmatic). In addition you can be walking around with a time bomb in you, so ignore the letter if your happy to drop dead over something you could have fixed or go find out what they have to say and then make an informed decision. It costs the NHS a lot less to prevent rather than cure.

[woofgang]

well if I am going to drop dead surely that costs the NHS less than fixing something?. I am very happy to leave the resource of the NHS to people like yourself who actually need it.
Do you honestly honestly think that nagging parents and bodyshaming children will make the (small percentage) of irresponsible parents to change their ways? because so far it doesn't seem to be.
I sort of get Jim's point about informing national policy but am not sure that its right for governments to have the right to weigh and measure in this way without parental permission?...even if the results are anonymised, which if the school can write to individual parents, they don't seem to be. If the decision was taken to do the same kind of measurement exercise on adults and they were stopped in the street or there was mass measurement at their place of work, I am sure that there would be complaint and mass refusal....so why is it different because it is children?

[jim360]

I'm struggling to find the right way to express this but still it seems to me natural that the state should have a higher duty of care to children than it does to adults -- and in that sense I don't think it's unreasonable to be more keen to monitor children's health than it would be adults -- who are, after all, deemed responsible enough to look after themselves. Or, at least, responsible enough to take the blame for their own mistakes.

I'm not saying I support this programme exactly, but I don't know if I have any principled objections. In practice if it leads to letters like this then certainly it's been badly implemented though.

[dannyk13]

BMI doesn't work simply because muscle weighs heavier than fat, so two persons of equal height, one who works out and the other doesn't, will have different BMI's.

[woofgang]

I do see your points Jim but I am not sure that the reason(s) for it are that high minded.....and I'd love to see any evidence at all that its working. I actually think its potentially risky as well. Children are not stupid and they know the score. They know what is being assessed for and why. I don't know what the answer is but I am pretty sure that state sponsored body judgement and shaming is not it.

[hc4361]

Calipers are far more accurate for measuring body fat but it is much more involved than weighing a person and measuring their height.

[hc4361]

Actually BMI with weight measurement would be better than BMI alone. A super fit muscular athlete and a fat couch potato could be the same height and weight but the athlete's waist will be much smaller.

[youngmafbog]

Or as my daughter said, all you need are a set of working eyes and a dose of common sense. Unfortunately even some doctors seem to lack either or both it seems.

//well if I am going to drop dead surely that costs the NHS less than fixing something?// if you drop dead maybe, but how many does that actually happen to?

I'm pretty much with jim on this, I can see a need to ensure children are not abused (and yes it is abuse) but at the same time what we have at the moment is misuse.

//will make the (small percentage) of irresponsible parents//

It is unfortunately a larger number than you seem to be implying and is growing continually, obesity in this country does need to be tackled or the NHS will be bought properly to its knees.

[ummmm]

I rarely see fat kids.