Hospital V Nursing Home

[horseshoes]

My Mum died a few weeks ago aged 86. she was very fit and well right up to the day she had a heart attack. She was sole carer for my Dad (88) who has Parkisnons disease (or so we thought). Since the day she died, he has given up. He took to his bed and doesn't eat. We did have carers coming In 3 times a day but then he started getting really, REALLY bad shakes. We called the doctor acouple of times. and the carer called the paramedics a couple of times. We've seen him during and after these episodes and its very scary.it's ALWAYS been assumed its the Parkinson's. To be honest the care he's received for that is practically NIL. Anyway then last time the GP came she asked if hed like to go to hospital!!! he said yes, so off he went. While there he had a very bad episode of these shakes, and someone decided to give him a scan which has revealed a large cancerous tumour behind his eyes and metastatic tumours in brain. Yes not having treatment, just symptom management. So possibly that which was causing the ever worsening shaking. He's now blind and his speech is very bad. The hospital is pestering us to find a nursing home but we'd prefer him to stay in hospital even if they move him to the community hospital in the next town. Can they make us take him out of hospital?

[anneasquith]

Hi, is there any treatment being offered for the brain carcinoma ?. If no, have you and he thought about a hospice ?

[calmck]

A very difficult time. Sorry to ask but have you been given any idea of life expectancy? Is he having any treatment or just palliative care? Nursing home or hospice care? Why not contact McMillan and ask their advice as they are the best in this area

[calmck]

As far as I know they cannot make you take him out without a “care plan” in place

[horseshoes]

Thanks for your replies. No as far as I know it's just symptom management...no chemo or anything like that. I've asked for an idea of his life expectancy but no one can tell me anything. I was browsing a hospice website today. It's a bit of way away for us all to visit and the community hospital is nice. But whatever is best for him really. I just don't like the idea of nursing home ratio of nurse/patients.

[woofgang]

I am sorry to say this but you can't choose for someone to stay in hospital. If his condition is not treatable then I can see why the hospital need him to be placed in palliative care so that they can free up a bed for someone who can be treated....because that is what hospitals are for, treatment, not care. Can I ask why you don't want your father to move to a palliative care facility?

[EDDIE51]

At 88 any treatment is going to cause more problems than it cures ! What you describe is very common , it happened to my Father ! He only lasted a few more weeks ! Sorry

[horseshoes]

Woof, I do understand that. I thought the community hospital would look after him though. He's in the big general hospital at the moment. We did look at lical nursing homes when we thought he and mum were going in together. Not impressed even though it was £1k a WEEK each. Not even that many around here.

[horseshoes]

Eddie he said right off that he didn't want treatment. So it's just managing pain etc and end of life care.

[woofgang]

I am not sure what its like where you live, but round here, community hospitals are hospitals too. Their beds are for people who need treatment and not care.

[calmck]

Have you considered having him at home with Macmillan nurses. I am not saying you should but is it an option for you

[horseshoes]

Yes I understand that community hospitals are hospitals! I think what I'm trying to say is this. IF his life expectancy is very short, which I suspect it may be, a stay in the community hospital would only take up the same amount of time as somone who was there, say like my Mum, who was there after a heart attack. I'm not suggesting for a minute that he should deprive a worthier person of a bed.

[horseshoes]

Calmck yes we've considered that but he doesn't want that.

[anneasquith]

I’m sure the hospital where your father is have a social work department. A discussion with them may be of benefit. I hope your father is pain free and settled . Good luck .

[horseshoes]

Thanks Anne. I'll try that too.

[bednobs]

orry for all this bad news you're hving.
You cant insist a patient stays in hospital if they dont need hospital treatment. It's not a case of worthiness, it's a case of the best setting for the person to receive care. If you want your dad to have a higher ratio of nurses, you could get care at home for him (if you can pay of course) where you could have 24 hour care if you wanted.

[237SJ]

Sorry for what you are going through. If it was me, the first thing I would do is contact the hospice because they have policies as to how near the end of someone's life they believe them to be before they will admit them. If they say No, then you can at least discount that for now and concentrate on other options (nursing home etc)

[Hymie]

Sounds like he should qualify for NHS continuing health care – where the State picks up the complete tab for whatever care is needed.

Checkout this web link as a first point of information:-

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/

[tinkerbell23]

Firstly I am so sorry to read about this horrible stressful & sad time you are having!!!

I am a nurse & I read in your replies MOST IMPORTANTLY that your Dad does not wish to go back home!!

If he is not quite ready for a bed in a hospice or in fact dosent want to go there again , his choice.... then I agree a community hospital or “offsite bed” is the next step.

Im in Scotland but I just cant believe that you would have to fork out for a nursing home- i would be shocked.

Is there a palliative care nurse specialist you could ask to speak to?

I also second asking if he has a Macmillan nurse (I am one!) xx

[horseshoes]

Hi Tinkerbell

We won't have to pay for a nursing home. We WOULD have had to when we were looking for a place for Mum and Dad. This was BEFORE dad had his cancer diagnosis. We had found them a lovely place but Mum died the day before they were due to move in. At that point, Dad didn't need a nursing home but they wanted to stay together. So yes, we were going to be paying for that. Of course, that's all changed now. I'm so pleased that you understand what I'm getting at in my question. I'm going to try and get to speak to a palliative care specialist or a Macmillan nurse. Thanks all, for your replies.

[anneasquith]

Best wishes, it’s a sad/ difficult time for you ,