Didn't There Used To Be A 'Religion' Category?

[jourdain2]

Not all that important to most people, but I am feeling troubled and I am under pressure (as a P.C.C. member) to provide a response tomorrow sometime. Can we start by acknowledging that I am a Christian, active in the Church, and a musician (singing and organising music in services and for other charitable enterprises).

At the start of the lockdown I organised for the villagers to use the church as a repository for craft materials/books etc.. It was working well. Then the Archbishops intervened (and I have met and admire Dr. Sentamu) and the church was closed. Full stop. OK, the village worked out that the bus shelter would provide a location and there is a mini-library etc. there now. I've been active in this got the initiative into the local church and helped with organising a village May Day display - currently on with V.E. Day. Basically the church has been sidelined (and I understand that, but I am working with the village population).

Probably rubbish for me to be posting, but I got a missive from the local Church vicars etc. saying all sorts of genteel rubbish and one phrase has stood out. "Things will not, nor should they, go back to the normal we have known." This, after a lot of stuff about Zoom etc..

I understand that there is a place for technology, but, please, am I alone in crying out that people need people on hand? Things should go back to normal (they should never have been interrupted to my mind) but with the addition of technology. Ah, well, rant over. It's not been a good day and I am troubled. Sorry. I really am thinking about resigning from the P.C.C. - it's a big thing for me. Please ignore, if you want, I don't really mind. I have to sort thisout.

[naomi24]

anneasquith, I thought you were questioning someone else's use of PPC. I looked but couldn't find it anywhere - hence my query.

[Mozz71]

The problem is Jordy, and forgive me for the Assumptions I'm about to make, I'm guessing the people you're wanting to provide a service for are of an older generation. If the virus catches hold, it could have a devastating effect on them. Whether or not you agree with the lockdown or not, it is in effect and should be adhered to. The church do not wish to be involved in actions that go against lockdown, and they are right, in my view.

I really think you ought to take time to think about the cause and effect of your actions.

[Canary42]

What is normal ? I don't believe things will return to how they were in December 2019, partly due to technological work-rounds which this pestilence has exposed.

But I'm not surprised by your concern over the statement (my italics) "Things will not, nor should they, go back to the normal we have known." which implies (or I infer anyway) an almost sinister threat.

Don't resign though, surely the PCC needs you more than ever to counter such nonsense, and to develop a working version of the new "normal". Sleep on it and awake refreshed to carry on your good work.

[woofgang]

Canary, I don’t see any threat there. I think its like all the remote working that has blossomed. The technology to do it has been around for years, but it never took off until businesses were forced into it. I used to remote work for part of my job 20 years ago. There wasn’t video calling but I could email and text chat to my team colleagues who were spread over many different bases. Yes face to face contact and visits in person should always be a part of church ministry and will still be needed in many many jobs too, but no I think that the old normal is gone and we shouldn’t lose or want to discard what is good about the new.

[rowanwitch]

A friend with similar church connections has struggled in the same way. It's a loss of connection and usefulness, you are not alone

[Old_Geezer]

The OP seems sensible to me. This ought not be an excuse to change what need not change. It should just give an indication of how to cope with pandemics slightly better next time.

[woofgang]

OG I think that I disgree........there are things that need not change that will still be better if they are changed. I also think that sorting out the new normal will be a kind of "organic" process. Some things will obviously change or obviously not change but in the middle will be things that will kind of change or not change according to how things work out, and that this will vary both in detail and degree from place to place and from group to group of people. Its horrible though when it feels like its out of one's control.

[bednobs]

the archbishop had no choice but to intervene. The church of England suspended all uses of the church for services/gatherings following government advice. I would presume that includes using the church buildings as community spaces. If they allowed your thing, they are on a hiding to nothing preventing people from doing other things in there. Much easier to ensure compliance by stopping everything.
I am not religious but as far as I can see your god does not mind where people worship her, privately, together, over a computer or in a church. People needing people has zero to do with religion (are you saying that only believers need to come together with others?) and I believe you are conflating the two things unnecessarily and causing yourself grief that needn't be caused. things will not go back to normal immediately and perhaps for a very extended period. Perhaps this is what your newsletter meant. Also, I don't know if religions keep score, but isn't it better that people get religious succour in a way that suits them, even if that does mean online? If people were forced into proving their religion by attending church, your religion would not win.

[Old_Geezer]

If there is a better way to do something then that should change regardless of pandemics or lockdowns. Best practice and all that. But what I believe I'm detecting is a push for change, for change sake, to fit in with what some wish to have imposed on the rest of us, using the virus as an excuse. You want an example, check the news sites for the call for the end of cash. That's pretty blatant.

[bednobs]

Also, I think to resign would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Clearly from your post you have a need to be needed and if you resign, you'll cut your ability to fulfil your own need (or maybe you'll find another way to be needed that is better for you - things change :))

[woofgang]

OG who is calling for the end of cash?

[Theland]

As posters above have said, Religion & Spirituality is a sub section of Society and Culture.
Join us there.
Regarding your problem with the Church, God discipline a those He loves, so changing circumstances are just a new challenge for you, to spread the Word wherever and however you can with what you've been given.

[naomi24]

Theland, Jourdain isn't a preacher. She's a member of the PCC doing a valuable job. The church couldn't function without people like Jourdain.

[jourdain2]

Thank you all, especially naomi (who I respect and seems to understand my position). I shall respond honestly, giving my opinion on how to proceed - and technology can only be a small part of this, although useful - and that I have serious disagreements with actions so far imposed. For example, I was asked (I'm Press contact) to send out the message that funerals could only be conducted at the graveside, with minimal family allowed to be present - despite this being in the open air and plenty of room to socially distance. This, to me, is unnecessarily cruel and callous in approach.
I did as asked, however. Then I checked the new laws and discovered that funerals are specifically exempted and can be held in church, with mourners able to be close proximity to the coffin to say their farewells, although spacing in the body of the church.
Also, I think Canary has hit a nail on the head. Old churches (ours had land gifted by William the Conq., trying to curry favour after the harrying of the North and almost complete by the 1100's) cost a lot to maintain. We pay our bit, but not a lot. I'm worried that the underlying message is 'get rid of small. old, not very profitable places, National Heritage can use the site'.
As I said, I am very surprised at Archbishop Sentamu going along with this. He is very much a people-contact person and has spent the last couple of years on a 'pilgrimage' around his diocese, meeting as many of us as possible, I have sung for him and offered him a cup of tea. He is, however, in his last weeks in post before the new Archbishop takes over and I suppose he does not want to oppose Welby. I don't have a great opinion of him, but don't tell anyone.

Again, thank you all. I was having a bit of a crisis and I offloaded. Feeling clearer-headed now. Whether I resign or not will depend on the response I get. Love you lot, thanks for being there to help. Cheers! :)

[Mamyalynne]

You'll make the right decision I'm sure.x

[woofgang]

Jordain, I think that the funeral limitations you mention were originally what was required, however it was changed...I think about two weeks into the lockdown. I hope you can get your head sorted and will be happy with whatever you decide.

[naomi24]

Jordain, don’t resign. We're in difficult times at the moment so hang on in there, keep calm, go with the flow, and wait and see what happens. If you don’t, I think you might regret it. x

[THECORBYLOON]

Regarding funerals, the Roman Catholic Church has also said they can take place only at the graveside or crematorium.

https://www.cte.org.uk/Articles/569779/Home/Coronavirus/Coronavirus_funerals_weddings.aspxl

[woofgang]

Jordain, can you tell us what you decided?

[woofgang]

PS why would Sentamu care what Welby says when he (Sentamu) is retiring? The weeks before I left my job in the NHS were the free-est I had ever known.