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When Can We See A Doctor?
48 Answers
Now the Covid crisis seems to have died down (forgive the pun), why aren’t we allowed to book an appointment with our doctors yet? It is still ring receptionist, hang on for half an hour, doctor will ring you back and hopefully see you later in the day.
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Telephone consultations can work – sometimes. Very often they don’t. I met a friend for lunch yesterday – first time for two years. Catching up on two years' news he told me that a few months ago he had developed a mole on the back of his shoulder. Being mindful of the warnings about skin cancer, he contacted his GP (after a struggle). He eventually got a call back from a practice nurse two days later. She asked him to send a photo of the offending article. He explained it was on his back and he could only see it in a mirror if he twisted round. She asked him to get somebody else to take it. He explained he lived on his own. She asked if he had a friend or neighbour who could take the picture. He lost his temper and asked her if she would be happy to strip off and discuss her medical problems with her friends and neighbours. Where did he go? Why, A&E, of course where, thankfully he was told he did not have anything serious. Why should a doctor’s practice try to diagnose a growth on a patient’s back by telephone? Just where are they getting these people from?
//I believe you will find that they will continue this way for the foreseeable future.//
I believe you are right. The GP service has used Covid as an excuse to move from a barely adequate service to one that is absolutely unfit for purpose. They will remain that way until politicians have the balls to abandon the service entirely. The title they hold of “primary carers” is false. They are providing very little care at all, primary or otherwise. But unfortunately they are the gatekeepers to NHS services where people are able to help patients with their problems. Three things need to be done urgently:
1. A system needs to be developed where patients can self refer to specialists able to help them.
2. Pharmacists need their remit expanded to enable them to prescribe most of the drugs currently available only via GPs and to undertake basic monitoring of conditions such as diabetes.
3. GPs need to be relieved of their duties and their practices and be encouraged to seek other medical positions where they may actually heal the sick.
//I believe you will find that they will continue this way for the foreseeable future.//
I believe you are right. The GP service has used Covid as an excuse to move from a barely adequate service to one that is absolutely unfit for purpose. They will remain that way until politicians have the balls to abandon the service entirely. The title they hold of “primary carers” is false. They are providing very little care at all, primary or otherwise. But unfortunately they are the gatekeepers to NHS services where people are able to help patients with their problems. Three things need to be done urgently:
1. A system needs to be developed where patients can self refer to specialists able to help them.
2. Pharmacists need their remit expanded to enable them to prescribe most of the drugs currently available only via GPs and to undertake basic monitoring of conditions such as diabetes.
3. GPs need to be relieved of their duties and their practices and be encouraged to seek other medical positions where they may actually heal the sick.
NJ
////He lost his temper and asked her if she would be happy to strip off and discuss her medical problems with her friends and neighbours. ////
Oh come on NJ, are you really trying yo tell me that your mate was too embarrased to pull his shirt up to have his mole photographed by a friend or neighbour.
If he lost his temper with me, I would discontinue the consultation.
////He lost his temper and asked her if she would be happy to strip off and discuss her medical problems with her friends and neighbours. ////
Oh come on NJ, are you really trying yo tell me that your mate was too embarrased to pull his shirt up to have his mole photographed by a friend or neighbour.
If he lost his temper with me, I would discontinue the consultation.
Sqad you are in the fortuitous position of belonging to a fraternity of medical elite. Your considerable knowledge and experience enables information not readily available to the general public. Google can make things worse. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The security of once relying upon quick access to a medical professional has been severely restricted. People are frightened, their backup doctors have hidden from availability. You’ve A&E, if you can get there and have several hours to spare. Pharmacists are a possible solution, enabling them to prescribe more would at least alleviate this unacceptable situation.
//Oh come on NJ, are you really trying yo tell me that your mate was too embarrased to pull his shirt up to have his mole photographed by a friend or neighbour.//
No he wasn't. It was the fact that he had been asked to do so that irked him. Bearing in mind how protective the NHS is of its patients' affairs (sometimes ridiculously so) I find it strange they are being encouraged to share details of their ailments with others.
//If he lost his temper with me, I would discontinue the consultation.//
He saved the nurse the trouble and did so himself. After all, it wasn't what I'd call a consultation anyway. If those in the medical trade insist of behaving stupidly they cannot be surprised if their patients - who, after all are usually ill and/or worried - sometimes lose their rag. There's no way that people should put up with this nonsense.
No he wasn't. It was the fact that he had been asked to do so that irked him. Bearing in mind how protective the NHS is of its patients' affairs (sometimes ridiculously so) I find it strange they are being encouraged to share details of their ailments with others.
//If he lost his temper with me, I would discontinue the consultation.//
He saved the nurse the trouble and did so himself. After all, it wasn't what I'd call a consultation anyway. If those in the medical trade insist of behaving stupidly they cannot be surprised if their patients - who, after all are usually ill and/or worried - sometimes lose their rag. There's no way that people should put up with this nonsense.
//Avatar Image Sqad
Hazlinny....LOL...LOL
I had my heart attack last night//. That just scared the life out of me lol.
I agree it will stay the same- but it is one extreme to the other and no balance. Previously, patients who didn't need or want ftf appointments were forced into them to continue longterm medication that they had no problem with.
Every 6 months for Contraceptive pill, regular reviews for an antidepressant I have been on for 24 years- which always did more harm than good with a male doctor... how are you?... fine?excellent, let's reduce it and cause chaos for the next two months then?
To... nothing. Why don't they compromise and see the patients who actually need or want to see them.
Hazlinny....LOL...LOL
I had my heart attack last night//. That just scared the life out of me lol.
I agree it will stay the same- but it is one extreme to the other and no balance. Previously, patients who didn't need or want ftf appointments were forced into them to continue longterm medication that they had no problem with.
Every 6 months for Contraceptive pill, regular reviews for an antidepressant I have been on for 24 years- which always did more harm than good with a male doctor... how are you?... fine?excellent, let's reduce it and cause chaos for the next two months then?
To... nothing. Why don't they compromise and see the patients who actually need or want to see them.
//... but it is one extreme to the other and no balance.//
Precisely, pixie. Telephone consultations are sometimes suitable and more convenient for both parties. But sometimes they are not (as in the case I outlined above). There's no way patients should be asked to submit photographs of their conditions. If it needs looking at, it needs looking at.
The problem with GP practices is they have too many part timers. I read recently that more than 50% of GPs now work three days a week or less. It's little wonder they are busy on the days they do deign to work. My practice has a practice manager and an assistant practice manager, seven staff in the "reception team", five in the "administration team", four practice nurses, two nursing assistants, and I nearly forgot, three salaried GPs and three partners. So fourteen in administration to support six in nursing and six doctors. (three of whom work for the practice only part time).
The very least the government could do (whilst it's working on my plan to abolish GPs entirely) is to move them to employee status with a defined salary, no bonuses for doing routine tasks which are part of their job, and defined hours. If GPs threaten to up sticks and leave, so be it. Few patients gain any benefit from them anyway and most are simply hampered from seeing someone who can help them with their problems by having to consult a GP in the first instance.
Precisely, pixie. Telephone consultations are sometimes suitable and more convenient for both parties. But sometimes they are not (as in the case I outlined above). There's no way patients should be asked to submit photographs of their conditions. If it needs looking at, it needs looking at.
The problem with GP practices is they have too many part timers. I read recently that more than 50% of GPs now work three days a week or less. It's little wonder they are busy on the days they do deign to work. My practice has a practice manager and an assistant practice manager, seven staff in the "reception team", five in the "administration team", four practice nurses, two nursing assistants, and I nearly forgot, three salaried GPs and three partners. So fourteen in administration to support six in nursing and six doctors. (three of whom work for the practice only part time).
The very least the government could do (whilst it's working on my plan to abolish GPs entirely) is to move them to employee status with a defined salary, no bonuses for doing routine tasks which are part of their job, and defined hours. If GPs threaten to up sticks and leave, so be it. Few patients gain any benefit from them anyway and most are simply hampered from seeing someone who can help them with their problems by having to consult a GP in the first instance.
"Just rang my doctor (managed to get through after 25 minutes of trying) and told them of my sore heel that I've had since December.
I was told the doctor would ring me next Thursday ...... 6 days from now!!"
so you expect someone else to treat your problem as urgent, when you havent for the last 5 months?
people sometimes very much surprise me with their expectations. If you want immediate service, go private
I was told the doctor would ring me next Thursday ...... 6 days from now!!"
so you expect someone else to treat your problem as urgent, when you havent for the last 5 months?
people sometimes very much surprise me with their expectations. If you want immediate service, go private
My local practice decided to continue the phone consultation first system as they feel it has removed a lot of the wasted visits and there is a lot more signposting to other services. Self referrals to most are possible. . The doctors are fairly good at arranging a face to face if they feel it is needed.
//...so you expect someone else to treat your problem as urgent, when you havent for the last 5 months?//
I don't think that GM was expecting to be treated urgently. There's no point in consulting a doctor for ailments as soon as they arise. Most conditions either get better or worsen. Those that remain the same for some time and which are causing difficulties need attention. A six day wait for a five minute phone call illustrates perfectly just how unfit for purpose the GP service is.
//...people sometimes very much surprise me with their expectations. If you want immediate service, go private//
Well they shouldn't surprise you. The NHS sucks enormous sums of money from the taxpayer. The current year's budget is around £180bn. A large amount of that goes on so-called "primary care" (i.e. GPs). With the amount of money it's costing, to be unable to provide a five minute phone consultation in less than six days (and that's good compared to some reports I have seen) is completely unacceptable. To suggest anybody who wants better service than that should "go private" is simply showing contempt for patients. Access to a GP should be available within a day or two for most matters and quicker than that in some urgent circumstances. The fact that it isn't demonstrates that it is plainly unfit for purpose and patients are entitled to expect better without having to pay twice.
I don't think that GM was expecting to be treated urgently. There's no point in consulting a doctor for ailments as soon as they arise. Most conditions either get better or worsen. Those that remain the same for some time and which are causing difficulties need attention. A six day wait for a five minute phone call illustrates perfectly just how unfit for purpose the GP service is.
//...people sometimes very much surprise me with their expectations. If you want immediate service, go private//
Well they shouldn't surprise you. The NHS sucks enormous sums of money from the taxpayer. The current year's budget is around £180bn. A large amount of that goes on so-called "primary care" (i.e. GPs). With the amount of money it's costing, to be unable to provide a five minute phone consultation in less than six days (and that's good compared to some reports I have seen) is completely unacceptable. To suggest anybody who wants better service than that should "go private" is simply showing contempt for patients. Access to a GP should be available within a day or two for most matters and quicker than that in some urgent circumstances. The fact that it isn't demonstrates that it is plainly unfit for purpose and patients are entitled to expect better without having to pay twice.
If I had my time again I'd seriously consider medicine as a career.
I wouldn't want to shine particularly bright, appear in news bulletins or address conferences, just turn up, have a blether on the phone while sipping an agreeable cup of coffee, dish out some tablets or ointment or maybe arrange a Zoom physiotherapy appointment or two then go home.
For money too!
I wouldn't want to shine particularly bright, appear in news bulletins or address conferences, just turn up, have a blether on the phone while sipping an agreeable cup of coffee, dish out some tablets or ointment or maybe arrange a Zoom physiotherapy appointment or two then go home.
For money too!
//For money too!//
Very good money, too, duggie. £100k pa if you can be bothered to turn up five days a week. General Practice has morphed into a very lucrative business. What I don't understand is the reports I hear of GPs "burning out" with stress and overwork. I don't know where these burnt out GPs have been working but it's nowhere where I or any of my friends live. As well as being a lucrative business, the country's GP service has developed into a national scandal.
Very good money, too, duggie. £100k pa if you can be bothered to turn up five days a week. General Practice has morphed into a very lucrative business. What I don't understand is the reports I hear of GPs "burning out" with stress and overwork. I don't know where these burnt out GPs have been working but it's nowhere where I or any of my friends live. As well as being a lucrative business, the country's GP service has developed into a national scandal.
I hope we never go back to the old system, telephone consultations suit me perfectly.
What’s not to like about sittingnin your own home and chatting to the doctor?
No driving to the surgery or hospital, trying to find a parking space, and then sitting in a waiting room with lots of other sick people. And letting the GP or hospital consultant, both well trained healthcare professionals, decide if a face to face appointment is necessary.
Saves everyone’s time, and in my view, far more efficient.
What’s not to like about sittingnin your own home and chatting to the doctor?
No driving to the surgery or hospital, trying to find a parking space, and then sitting in a waiting room with lots of other sick people. And letting the GP or hospital consultant, both well trained healthcare professionals, decide if a face to face appointment is necessary.
Saves everyone’s time, and in my view, far more efficient.
//What’s not to like about sittingnin your own home and chatting to the doctor?//
Nothing at all- if a chat is all you want. If you have something that needs looking at - such as my friend had - then maybe not such a good idea.
//I am just astonished that somebody hwho has a problem they have had for 5 months is in a huff because their GP isnt jumping to it and seeing them immediately!//
But once again I don't think Gizmonster expected his GP to "jump to it" or even to be seen immediately. But a wait of six days for a five minute phone consultation simply is not good enough. Most people have no alternative but to go to their GP when they have a problem. It's a closed shop. More than that, most people have paid heavily towards the enormous sums that the GP service costs to run (not helped by the ludicrously high salaries they are paid). This country has descended into mediocrity. It has developed a torpid attitude where second rate service (at first rate prices) is accepted as the norm, because "that's the way it is." People are entitled to expect better when they are ill when they are paying for a health service that is sucking up something like 20% of all government spending.
Nothing at all- if a chat is all you want. If you have something that needs looking at - such as my friend had - then maybe not such a good idea.
//I am just astonished that somebody hwho has a problem they have had for 5 months is in a huff because their GP isnt jumping to it and seeing them immediately!//
But once again I don't think Gizmonster expected his GP to "jump to it" or even to be seen immediately. But a wait of six days for a five minute phone consultation simply is not good enough. Most people have no alternative but to go to their GP when they have a problem. It's a closed shop. More than that, most people have paid heavily towards the enormous sums that the GP service costs to run (not helped by the ludicrously high salaries they are paid). This country has descended into mediocrity. It has developed a torpid attitude where second rate service (at first rate prices) is accepted as the norm, because "that's the way it is." People are entitled to expect better when they are ill when they are paying for a health service that is sucking up something like 20% of all government spending.
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