ChatterBank0 min ago
God.
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I've just caught a clip in a programme where a woman said that if she caught cancer then God would look after her. Surely this begs the question, if there is indeed a God, would he have given her cancer in the first place.
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Was she a Jehovah's Witness? My wife looked after one of these people the other night. Can't give her a blood transfusion despite needing one desperately.
It is God's will.
Fair enough. Anyone whose faith is stronger than their built in urge to survive must be very strong minded. Or stupid and brainwashed. Not sure which.
Not my place to judge I suppose, but I can't seem to get my head round it. Give me science over religion anyday.
It is God's will.
Fair enough. Anyone whose faith is stronger than their built in urge to survive must be very strong minded. Or stupid and brainwashed. Not sure which.
Not my place to judge I suppose, but I can't seem to get my head round it. Give me science over religion anyday.
This sort of blind faith never ceases to amaze me - granted, I am completely secular, but I just simply cannot comprehend how perfectly sensible people believe there is a god, it is just utterly absurd.
Beliveing in god is, as far as I can tell, on a par with believing in the fairies at the bottom of the garden, the troll under the bridge or Peter Pan - all four have been written about, but there is no evidence to suggest any of them exist.
In fact, I am going to start my own religion based upon the writings of Tom Sharpe...........for it was told that Wilt would achieve an erection that would remain tumescent to much embarrassment and hilarity etc......... Amen
As an agnostic, I just don't get this total, blind faith in something that is unprovable. my other half is Catholic (non practising) but has told me on frequent occasions, that the whole point of religion revolves around the word "faith", and i guess you've either got it or you haven't (I definitely haven't). This doesn't preclude me however from trying to give my daughter the basis to make her own mind up and I try to explain things where possible and take her to church occasionally.
In a roundabout way this gets me to the point I'm trying to make! One of the things I remember as a kid at Sunday School was that God helps those who helps themselves, and surely accepting a transfusion is helping yourself?
It reminds me of a joke I heard years ago which at the time I found more sad than funny as I think it illustrates this:
A deeply religious man goes on a cruise for the first time and the ship sinks with the loss of all hands except our hero, who manages to grab a life preserver being plunging into the ocean. Being a religious man he prayed to his God to save him, because after all, had he not led a pious, charitable and God-fearing existance?
After two days a ship appeared on the horizon, sailed towards him and sent a sent a launch to pick him up. 'No Thanks' the man said, 'My God will save me'. And so the ship sailed away and the man kept praying.
Several days later, delirious with hunger and weak from lack of water, the man spotted another ship on the horizon which sailed towards him and sent a launch to rescue him. 'No Thanks' the man said again, 'My God will save me', so the ship sailed away and the man continued to pray.
After several more days spent drifting on the seas, near to death, the man had drifted close to the coast and a Coastguard helipcopter, on patrol, spotted him and came down to rescue him. 'No thanks' said the man, 'My god will save me', so the helipcopter flew away.
And so the inevitable happened and the man dies. At the Pearly Gates he meets St Peter and requests to meet God. St Peter takes him to meet God where the man falls at God's feet and says 'Why didn't you save me God, haven't I lived a life of purity? A life of self-lessness, a life serving and helping others less fortunate than myself?' To whichGod replied 'I sentyou two ships and a helicopter, what more did you want?'
A deeply religious man goes on a cruise for the first time and the ship sinks with the loss of all hands except our hero, who manages to grab a life preserver being plunging into the ocean. Being a religious man he prayed to his God to save him, because after all, had he not led a pious, charitable and God-fearing existance?
After two days a ship appeared on the horizon, sailed towards him and sent a sent a launch to pick him up. 'No Thanks' the man said, 'My God will save me'. And so the ship sailed away and the man kept praying.
Several days later, delirious with hunger and weak from lack of water, the man spotted another ship on the horizon which sailed towards him and sent a launch to rescue him. 'No Thanks' the man said again, 'My God will save me', so the ship sailed away and the man continued to pray.
After several more days spent drifting on the seas, near to death, the man had drifted close to the coast and a Coastguard helipcopter, on patrol, spotted him and came down to rescue him. 'No thanks' said the man, 'My god will save me', so the helipcopter flew away.
And so the inevitable happened and the man dies. At the Pearly Gates he meets St Peter and requests to meet God. St Peter takes him to meet God where the man falls at God's feet and says 'Why didn't you save me God, haven't I lived a life of purity? A life of self-lessness, a life serving and helping others less fortunate than myself?' To whichGod replied 'I sentyou two ships and a helicopter, what more did you want?'
feel I must put my opinion here. As someone who believes in God my thoughts are if I got cancer, God would look after me in the sense that He'd give me the strength to fight it and do what it took to help my recovery or not as the case may be. She didn't necessarily mean God alone would look after her and she wouldn't accept treatment. I certainly don't feel that God "gives" people cancer. Now, I know there's masses of flaws and holes in my thinking but as someone said here, you really can't look at faith in a logical way- faith is just faith. I also believe in an after-life but no point in telling me about how crowded Heaven must be either- I'll still believe! :)
As a child, I had never really thought whether religion was good or bad. However when I was 16, my cousin was killed in an a road accident. He was 18 and loved by everyone. At his funeral, the vicar said that God had taken this child. I suddenly thought that if this God can do this sort of thing then I want nothing to do with religion. That was 27 years ago and my thoughts havn't changed.
The problem is in believing that God is an "active" God. That God is concerned with the daily affairs of Its creation.
i don't accept that kind of God. i believe that God created the universe and all that's in it by diversifying Itself into the Big Bang and all subsequent entities.
The purpose of God diversifying Itself into the many entities is that it gives God greater knowledge and experience when these entities gravitate back into the Oneness of God.
God established the formula by which the entities would operate. That formula includes the ability of the entities to foresee the trials and tribulations that are likely to involve them and choose whether to continue on that path, for whatever reason.
My views can be seen at: http://www.asearchfortruth.com/old
We are God and will one day return to the Oneness of God.
Perhaps those of you who do not believe in God should study the subject more.
Why God lets people suffer:
http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_questions/Answers/healing/sick.html
http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/suffer.html
http://hcs.harvard.edu/~acf/faq09.html
There is plenty more.
Also, why is that so many people who believe their religion are happy to bend their beliefs to fit in with their particular circumstances???
We have a woman in the office who is militant in her christian religious beliefs and takes everything as (excuse the pun) gospel, to the point that she actually believes in Adam and Eve - she believes Adam and Eve aren't a metaphor or that the idea of A&E symbolise anything else, she actually belives the whole A&E thing (if you've ever tried to have a discussion with somebody like this, it is one of the most frustrating things ever...)
Anyway, despite all these beliefs, she's happy to break her marriage vows and shack up with a bloke in the office!!!
Utter hypocrisy.
Aah yes, I don't believe in God because I don't understand. of course I'll go and take an OU course immediately.
Sorry, but to degenerate this into a general religious bunfight, but there's nothing I could learn/study that would make me alter my opinion in that religion is nothing more than an excuse.
'Cold today' - well that's God's will
'My two year old son died of meningitis' - well God has plans for your son
'200 people killed in avalanche' - well God moves in mysterious ways
What utter tripe.
roger- as I said earlier I certainly don't believe that God "takes" small children and would never say that to someone who's lost someone. It's a shame you heard this from a vicar when you were young so that it's coloured your opinion of God. I didn't bring my children up to believe that either and I don't preach or find reasons for things in the bible- I have more of a "quiet" faith! I don't really understand why people would think that God is sitting up on a cloud somewhere doling out retribution and terrible illnesses on small children- isn't that a rather old testament view of him? I hope that if I was faced with something terrible happening to me or my kids (hoping not) I wouldn't think he'd singled them out- **it happens but still believe in God.
furthermore- (sorry to go banging on, I don't usually!) if some evil swine took my daughter with the intention of killing her, what do I really expect God to do about it? Send a thunderbolt down on him? Ring me on his celestial mobile? Nor can I blame God- he didn't make him evil at birth, he chose his path as we all have freedom to do.
to quote one of your links rampart
'Friend, we suffer and die because of SIN.
You say, "I didn't do anything wrong. Why am I a sinner?" We are all born with a sin nature.'
That to me is a sick. If you do not think it's severely messed up to believe that a supreme being, who not only has the power to relieve this agony, but by all accounts desires it, being omnipotently good, would allow people who had never done anything wrong in their entire lives to suffer agony and despair merely because according to his word we erred, despite his ability to see into and exist in the future and shape it to his will, then I suggest you take a deep breath and look around at people around you. The idea that a supreme being would willingly and knowingly create a being destined to become flawed enough to deserve the agony this world is capable of inflicting is disturbing to me - but not as much as those who claim that it is OUR fault.
By the way, I would welcome a discussion on the above as it would give me a chance to expose the monstrous lies and logical falsehoods that people like you believe in.
The day cannot come soon enough when people like you are a faint memory.
'Friend, we suffer and die because of SIN.
You say, "I didn't do anything wrong. Why am I a sinner?" We are all born with a sin nature.'
That to me is a sick. If you do not think it's severely messed up to believe that a supreme being, who not only has the power to relieve this agony, but by all accounts desires it, being omnipotently good, would allow people who had never done anything wrong in their entire lives to suffer agony and despair merely because according to his word we erred, despite his ability to see into and exist in the future and shape it to his will, then I suggest you take a deep breath and look around at people around you. The idea that a supreme being would willingly and knowingly create a being destined to become flawed enough to deserve the agony this world is capable of inflicting is disturbing to me - but not as much as those who claim that it is OUR fault.
By the way, I would welcome a discussion on the above as it would give me a chance to expose the monstrous lies and logical falsehoods that people like you believe in.
The day cannot come soon enough when people like you are a faint memory.
Being a non religious person I do think that people believe god throws at them these things for reasons - My mother is christian and through her life she has experienced some pretty bad things but she honestly believes that its for a reason. Personally I see your view on it - why make them suffer if you can prevent it?!
