pregnancy

[laurence2]

My sister-in-law has just found out that her sons girlfriend is pregnant.

They already have a 9 month old baby girl, The problem with this pregnancy {approx 4 months} is that they,ve just found out that the baby's head is twice the size of the babys body, The hospital have said in so many words it would be in there best interest to have a termination as the baby looks like it will be seriously handicapped both mentally/physically.

His girlfriend who is only {18} is very confused and so obviously turned to her mother for advice, To our astounishnent she told her daughter to go ahead with the pregnancy, and that the state would fund the upbringing of the baby with a 24 hour carer and that they would be provided with a car and be ok financially.

Her mother for the record is a serial benefit claimer like most of her family, and we feel she is being ill-advised by her mother, she's even saying she not going to the hospital in the morning now for further test, once again her mothers idea.

We feel she is being mis-guided as to what lies ahead,she's a frightened young lady and we are very concerned for her.

Your comments would be appreciated as we feel that all the information/advice we can give her will assist in this difficult decision.

Thankyou.

[laurence2]

morg-monster, thank for your post.

Can i just point out that its the girls mother thats telling her not to go, she is the stumbling block, She's a woman who will not reason full stop. i'm going to take the info i,ve got up their, and if that makes me the big bad wolf, so be it.

[Se7en]

Laurie, a lot of teenagers spout that immortal line to their parents "I wish I had never been born", after arguments with their parents.

In this situation, you have got to look at the childs point of view...will it suffer during its shortened life so much that it literally wished it had never been born, and it would have been better for the child to have terminated the pregnancy.

I know where your heads at at the moment coz Ive just found out at lunchtime today that my brothers girlfriend (2 months pregnant) has gone to hospital with internal bleeding, which does not sound good.

[laurence2]

se7en, Thank for the post.

Fingers crossed all's well with your Brothers Girlfriend.

[kick3m0n]

Laurie...did she go? I just noticed it's 2, and I was thinking about you all.

Se7en, hope it's good news re your brothers baby. Bleeding during pregnancy is really not uncommon, so it may well turn out OK for them. I hope so. All teh best.

[laurence2]

kick, Not 100% sure as we,ve had no luck contacting them, they,ve no phone's.

Hopefully they have gone, tho according to my wife's mum who spoke to them last, she was adament she wase'nt going

[kick3m0n]

any news babes? I've been thinking about it most of the afternoon.

[dancealot13]

You all must think Im crazy. But after reading all of the responses, I am in utter shock that everyone said to terminate it. I have never heard of such a thing at 4 months unless the mother's life is in danger. I know this is stressfull on the young kids that got pregnant, but to tell them its ok to terminate this mainly for the benefit of the first child is complete B*** S***! They made the choice to get pregnant again and now have to take FULL responsibility for this poor child. I have grown up around disabled people of all ages and all dissorders. If this child is meant to die then it will. It's a sad situation, and its breaking my heart. But to terminate it at 4 months when its not even threatening the mothers life if sick.

[Zorr0]

Dancelot, whilst you are entitled to your opinion, you should put it in a more subtle manner. It is the child itself who is the important person here, along with the safety of the mother of the unborn child. If the child were born and suffered great pain and untimely death then that would be a travesty.

Family members of those involved, have posted this question to obtain opinions.

The family will be in an emotive state over this, as we are talking about a human life, no matter how young.

You should put your opinions in a form which argues that there is a stronge valid argument to let the child be born. But not use the far from subtle manner which you did, as that is likely to cause great stress to the authors of the posting.

[dancealot13]

Zorr0, I agree and I apologize for being so blunt, and I don't mean to come across rude. But I am answering this question with the utt most respect for the unborn child, and I feel from everyones response that they arnt looking at the child as a living thing because it is hidden in the mothers belly.

If the child was in an incubator, would they be so quick to terminate it?

I've just never heard of a group of people talking like this, and wording everything calmly and non-chalant- when ultimately they are discussing killing a 4 month unborn child.

If the mothers life is in danger then of course terminate the pregnancy if need be. But Laurence never said the mothers life was at risk. Also there was nothing mentioned about the baby suffering. If the child is in great pain, then of course it would be torture for it to live. But they must find these important factors out before they terminat, to assume is a nightmare. The un-born child has made it this far, just give it a chance.

[laurence2]

dancealot, they suspect the baby will have Edwards symdrome, if you go onto google and put this in it will tell you all u need to know ie the baby won't see full term?

Kick, thankyou again for your concern, She did'nt go to the hospital, shes going to have a think about it, but her mother has told her that her elder son had something similar and turned out normal.

It beggars belief.

[dancealot13]

Laurence2- Thank you for sharing the website, I will continue to look into it to educate myself more about it. But I am familiar with Edwards Syndrom, and the outcome is usually fatal. Im sorry for how I have come across, and you're family is in my prayers.

I have one question if you don't mind answering. Why would the doctors be so quick to terminate if it is possible it could live for a short amount of time? Why not just give it that? I want to understand, I just don't though.

[laurence2]

dancealot, from what i gather, they have'nt used the word termination as such, it was mentioned in so many words because the cut-off time for the termination is within the next week or so, then after this she would have to carry the baby full term.

Ps, the chances of the baby going full term is 5%, thats why termination is being mentioned, also if the baby was to go full term, the likely hood is the baby would be dead within weeks if not days.

one other thing, if the baby goes full term even with a still born, your required to have a funeral.

[mimififi]

If the baby is seriously handicapped and the testing shows for sure this to be the case, then a late termination can be applied for and is granted in medical cases. Don't let time put upon you any added pressure.

Would it be possible for you to arrange for the mother and father of the child to have say a weekend away by themselves to talk to each other and think about what they have decided. I really feel for the mother, but the father appears to be being slightly overlooked. This is his child too and he will need time to think, decide and grieve.

testing should always be encouraged, as at the next scan/test, the outcome might not be so grim. Things can change quickly inutero. I am not trying to give you false hope, but it is not outside of the realms of plausability.

this couple can listen to advice, but at the end of the day, they must be understood and made to feel like it was their decision and no-one elses.

My prayers to you, This is a situation no parent should have to face.

[dancealot13]

Laurence2 - thank you for your response. My thoughts are with the young couple.

Again, I apologize for coming across so harsh, I should think more before I respond in a certain manner. xxx

[malaise]

Sorry, I haven't read the other comments so I don't know if this has already been said.

I work with severely disabled people. Their quality of life is utterly diabolical, regarless of how well they're treated in the home. (I'm not saying residential homes are horrible; quite the OPPOSITE. But having a very limited awareness of your surroudings, limited mobility, and limited communication is no life a loving person would inflict on another.)

I also seriously doubt that there would be any 24 hour carers. More likely for the child to go to a residential home, and if so, there'd be no car either. Many severely disabled children are put into care homes by their parents when they reach schooling age, as the stress is far too much for the family.

18 years of age is too young to bring up a healthy baby responsibly for most people, never mind a child who will need constant lifelong care. Have they considered that if the child is very severely disabled, its life expectancy will be much lower than the norm?

I hope she finds the strength to go to the doctor's. Unexpectedly losing a child full-term is much more devastating than knowinly having a termination. x

[laurence2]

malaise, thankyou for your comments

[horselady]

Laurence, what a pity she didn't go for her appointment today. I've been thinking about all of you a lot. My first baby only lived for 10 minutes when he was born. Although that was almost 20 years ago, I always remember his birthday and still shed a few tears for him, even though I had 2 lovely healthy children afterwards. Whatever happens, she will learn to live with it, as I have, and she will always remember her baby. Love to all of you xxx

[laurence2]

horselady, your comments are much appreciated

Thankyou

[Jennykins]

If there is only a 5% chance of the baby living.. then take that chance.. we are not God..

and if you are to look at this from a medical point of view, It is much safer for the womans body to reject the baby.. If she is 20 weeks plus at the time of abortion.. then they will do two of these choices.. either clip the baby limb by limb while the mother is put a sleep .. then take it out one peice at a time.. OR.. they will poison the baby with salt water.. then induce the mother in to labor and make her push out the dead baby..and both choices are very harm full to the mother.. Id say let nature take its course...

JEN

[laurence2]

jenny, Thank for your post again, i,ve also posted an answer in response to your post on the other thread.

I appreciate your views, but no one is playing God here, The girl as you know cannot be force to have a termination, She is being advised, And in the doctors eyes they feel a termination will be for the best.

The likely outcome if the baby Has Edwards symdrome is She more than likely won't go full term, They are a couple who are not financially well off, And if the baby is a still born or dies as expected within the first few weeks/months, they would require a funeral.

Now before you say this is worth it, can i point out that they don't work, in which case it will be a ''state funeral'' from which i gather is of not much dignity in this, please qoute me if i'm wrong.

Its a horrible position to be in for them both, and i can't imagine what they are going through, tho whatever decision they make should be respected by all

Thankyou