Heaven & Hell

[Theland]

Are you hopeful / worried about going to heaven / hell?

[pie+mash]

Perhaps cos they had nothing better to do!!!

[noxlumos]

Power whiffey?That's the usual reason for inventing a load of non specific stuff to fool the masses. I would love to believe in God, would love to, more than I can possibly even begin to express here, but in my darkest hours when I asked for him and believed in him as a child ( which is what you are supposed to do isn't it?) he wasn't there, he didn't offer any feeling of comfort or proteciton or love, or even knowledge and enlightenment, so what happened? I played by his "rules" I asked for him, and he wasn't there?

[wizard69]

the bible gives us a god on a stick who loves us unconditioanally (provided we do every thing he says),wants everyone to be saved and yet speaks in parables so no one can understand and outside of the bible leaves us with no proof of his existance.Strange belief system if you ask me.The bible is one of the most obnoxious books that ive ever read and the god that it portrays (as opposed to the one that you WANT it to portray) is a paranoid,schizophrenic,genocidel,sexist,bloodthirsty,insecure maniac.Why anyone would want to spend an eternity with such a being is beyond me.
Hopeful or worried? Nah...

[Carakeel]

Hiya Nox, I agree with your views and Ratters here. I was brought up in a Catholic family, taught by nuns, even had a cousin who was a bishop, but I remain unconvinced by a lot of what the churches preach. Unlike RATTER, I am not at all sure that our death is the end of us. I had two cardiac arrests and after one the doctors pronounced my time of death and wrote out the paperwork for the morgue. While they were doing all that I experienced things that would take far too long to explain on here, not even sure I could find the words to do so, so I won't even try. I obviously came back from wherever it was I had gone and days later ceremoniously burnt the hospital death certificate in the presence of several doctors and nurses and a rather large bottle of bubbly! Since then I have felt that we do go on, obviously not in our bodily form, but that we do continue and yes, I know it sounds totally crazy. Whether I am right or not, this experience has helped me to live with the death of my darling son Kevin and in fact it helped him to die peacefully in my arms, unafraid of what was to come. But one thing I do know ... believing in God can not be seen as a guarantee of ending up in heaven as if it were, it would be a gross travesty. I would guess that far more killings / murders have been committed by believers than atheists if we are to believe the newspapers and the history books. Surely these people cannot rightly be sent to a so called heaven??? This alone would put me off believing in a just God!

[Carakeel]

Hiya crete sweety! Yes, his lady love is fine, just got over a migraine, so a lot better than this morning. Amazing what cuddles can cure! xx :o)

[whiffey]

nox, at the time the New Testament was written, there was no question of power-tripping or manipulating masses. Instead there was the worse chance of horrible death in the amphitheatre. So I don't believe that Paul and the other apostles invented what they wrote. What would be the point in dying for the sake of a fabrication ?

If you accept the factual reporting of Caesar's invasion of Britain, then you have to give serious consideration to the likelihood that the NT is also reporting facts. It is certainly much better authenticated. A better analysis than I could ever give is "Who Moved the Stone ?" by Frank Morison, in which a lawyer looks at the evidence for the resurrection.

Oh don't get me started lol ! I do envy people like Theland who have reconciled all this stuff, I am still struggling, but it is not an onerous task.

[spurslady]

Theland are you male or female? or both?

[wizard69]

whiffey.that book is a load of *******. check this out
http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/stone.htm

[noxlumos]

Yeah but whiffey you've not answered my question AGAIN, where was God when I needed him and played by HIS rules?

[spurslady]

carakeel you a one remarkable woman all you have been through and you are still lovely and friendly.

[pie+mash]

Hey you don't think whiffey is Theland, do you? He never answers your questions either lol

[whiffey]

OK I give up ! Everything in existence has two or multiple facets. For everyone who was persuaded and moved by Morison (me) there will be hundreds who aren't. I can't explain evil and pain, even C.S Lewis has problems. But I have examined everything I can find surrounding the life and death and whatever of Jesus and I find so much to think about. It's just a personal thing, it always will be, because it is as likely that Jesus rose from the dead as that Caesar invaded Britain.

[RATTER15]

Carakeel is the most wonderful lady I know, the kindest and gentlest with a heart of gold and not a single ounce of malice in her body.

OK so I am a little biased, it still true though.

[Theland]

Theland is male - age nearly 56 - father of six, grandfather of two, soon to be three, married thirty four years - works in factory - has examined the evidence in the Bible, with a view, many years ago, of knocking holes in it. Found that it stands up to any critical examination. To the well read people who know the Bible but still reject it, I don't know the answer. But let me think on this further.

[whiffey]

whiffey is not Theland, definitively.

[raysparx1]

RATTER, I think you have found a truly lovely lady, as I have,we are very lucky men, we must continue to cherish them,as I know you will, and I know I certainly will.

[spurslady]

I honestly thought you were female! I had an image of some old bid grey hair and grey cardy bashing away at her keyboard trying to save my soul!

Sorry but thats how I pictured you. What does the Mrs think of all this then?

What footie team do you support.....

[Theland]

Noxlumos - what did you want God to do in your dark hour? If you suffered because of the evil of the misuse of the free will of men, then god is not to blame, evil men were. Remember also that the bible teaches that the whole of creation is corrupted because of sin. that includes disease, and other things that we erroniously call, "Acts Of God."

[Le Chat]

Nox, Christians would say that God was there but gave you what you needed, rather than what you wanted or asked for. ie, everything that was happening to you was because it was supposed to. They may also say that he does not interfer with things that are created by man ie, why did he not stop the halocaust, 9/11 etc.
Sounds like a crock of sh** to me though.

[spurslady]

wm?