ChatterBank2 mins ago
Murdering Yank gets promotion
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I just heard, the American that bombed the cr�pe out of our guys has been promoted ... go figure.
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The whole story is really sad and it the fact that Matty Hull was killed is awful. However, I can't help feeling sorry for the guys flying the jet. They had asked whether the vehicles were coalition forces and been told several times that there were no 'friendly' vehicles in the area.
I don't know a huge amount about combat operations but I'm fairly sure that these aircraft are tasked to destroy targets by air controllers on the ground and don't just cruise around looking for things to blow up. I think it raises more questions about the communications between ground and air troops than about the personal abilities of any individual. The airmen have to live with the awful mistake for the rest of their lives, even though it may not have been their fault. A military inquiry cleared them of any wrongdoing.
Mr Hull's widow said that the recording was 'immensely sad'. I'd agree, very sad for all parties involved.
I don't know a huge amount about combat operations but I'm fairly sure that these aircraft are tasked to destroy targets by air controllers on the ground and don't just cruise around looking for things to blow up. I think it raises more questions about the communications between ground and air troops than about the personal abilities of any individual. The airmen have to live with the awful mistake for the rest of their lives, even though it may not have been their fault. A military inquiry cleared them of any wrongdoing.
Mr Hull's widow said that the recording was 'immensely sad'. I'd agree, very sad for all parties involved.
I dont think that is a very good comparison naz.
The american man was ordered to fire and assured he was firing on the 'enemy'.
A police man who runs over an innocent man probably doesn't have somebody telling him the man is a criminal, and that he should run him down as it was his job to do that.
Its compliacted. Of Course
The american man was ordered to fire and assured he was firing on the 'enemy'.
A police man who runs over an innocent man probably doesn't have somebody telling him the man is a criminal, and that he should run him down as it was his job to do that.
Its compliacted. Of Course
''fashionable anti-american rhetoric'' ... you decide.
The US pilots involved in the "friendly fire" attack that killed L/Cpl Hull near Basra in March 2003 were reservists from the Idaho National Guard's 190th Fighter Squadron who had never been in action before.
The airman, Gus 'Skeeter' Kohntopp, has now been promoted to colonel with the Air National Guard's A-10 tankbuster training wing at a top US base.
A transcript of the video footage reveals that the pilots say on several occasions they can see orange panels on top of the armoured vehicles beneath them, which were used to identify them as coalition, rather than Iraqi, forces.
But they convinced themselves that the orange panels were enemy rocket launchers and opened fire.
The US pilots involved in the "friendly fire" attack that killed L/Cpl Hull near Basra in March 2003 were reservists from the Idaho National Guard's 190th Fighter Squadron who had never been in action before.
The airman, Gus 'Skeeter' Kohntopp, has now been promoted to colonel with the Air National Guard's A-10 tankbuster training wing at a top US base.
A transcript of the video footage reveals that the pilots say on several occasions they can see orange panels on top of the armoured vehicles beneath them, which were used to identify them as coalition, rather than Iraqi, forces.
But they convinced themselves that the orange panels were enemy rocket launchers and opened fire.
Everybody makes mistakes in their jobs (albeit not normally with such extreme consequences!)
It would be unfair to vilify this guy, particularly as he was acting under instruction the same way as the police officer making a genuine mistake in your scenario shouldn't be. Although something like 'I didn't see him' might be a better defence than 'I thought he was a villain' unless the police have scary new powers I wasn't aware of!!
However, a promotion within a fairly short time period does seem unjustified and undeserved; costly mistakes shouldn't be rewarded
It would be unfair to vilify this guy, particularly as he was acting under instruction the same way as the police officer making a genuine mistake in your scenario shouldn't be. Although something like 'I didn't see him' might be a better defence than 'I thought he was a villain' unless the police have scary new powers I wasn't aware of!!
However, a promotion within a fairly short time period does seem unjustified and undeserved; costly mistakes shouldn't be rewarded
do you think when they realised they'd bombed friendlies that they were chuffed about it? It doesn't sound that way to me.
They had received confirmation that there were no friendlies before firing. They were informed of the presence of friendlies in the vicinity just after they had fired.
Have to get kids from school now... I understand how one might be angry about this.... but this was an accident. There is nothing to be gained here by blaming these men.... only something to be gained by looking at how this situation occurred.
Just as Hulls family have to live with his loss, the americans will have to live with the fact that they killed him. I wouldn't like to think that I had to live with that for the rest of my life... how about you?
Just trying to show some compassion.... as its the anger that fuels war.
They had received confirmation that there were no friendlies before firing. They were informed of the presence of friendlies in the vicinity just after they had fired.
Have to get kids from school now... I understand how one might be angry about this.... but this was an accident. There is nothing to be gained here by blaming these men.... only something to be gained by looking at how this situation occurred.
Just as Hulls family have to live with his loss, the americans will have to live with the fact that they killed him. I wouldn't like to think that I had to live with that for the rest of my life... how about you?
Just trying to show some compassion.... as its the anger that fuels war.
The pilot in this case (and the police officer in your example) would not be promoted *because* they accidentally killed people but because they have proved themselves in the rest of their job.
I think its unfair to refuse to reward someone for doing good just because they once did something bad.
I'm guessing that most people have screwed up in the workplace at least once, yet people still get promoted - some of the managers I've had in the past have certainly been less than perfect!
This case is extreme and very regrettable but I see no reason why the pilot (who, again, has been found guilty of no wrongdoing) should have his life destroyed.
What would your suggestion be if this man consistently worked really hard at his job to put this incident behind him? Not promote him for the next 30 years?
And apparently the pilot now works for a commercial airline not the US Air Force.
I think its unfair to refuse to reward someone for doing good just because they once did something bad.
I'm guessing that most people have screwed up in the workplace at least once, yet people still get promoted - some of the managers I've had in the past have certainly been less than perfect!
This case is extreme and very regrettable but I see no reason why the pilot (who, again, has been found guilty of no wrongdoing) should have his life destroyed.
What would your suggestion be if this man consistently worked really hard at his job to put this incident behind him? Not promote him for the next 30 years?
And apparently the pilot now works for a commercial airline not the US Air Force.
The pilots made the decision to fire on the advice of forward air controllers who were on the ground not 'hundreds of miles away'. That is their job, to call in air strikes on identified targets. I'm guessing that if the pilot and the forward air controllers involved in this met up, it would be the air controllers apologising to the pilot not vice versa.
Col Kohntopp was not inexperienced, he had over 20 years experience in the US Air Force.
Col Kohntopp was not inexperienced, he had over 20 years experience in the US Air Force.
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