Body & Soul1 min ago
operation refusals
23 Answers
i refer to the latest nhs move , apparently by the ghastly p hewitt ,that is at the discretion of doctors etc. not to operate on obesse peopie or smokers.
i know many who just cannot stop smoking and i feel sorry for them and there are many elderly who have sat around for years waiting for surgery and naturally have put on weight, these are personal views.
however if people cannot receive treatment for the afforsaid reasons then this must be disscimination on a grand scale.
i appreciate there will be the odd cases where restraint is needed but not in general.
i know many who just cannot stop smoking and i feel sorry for them and there are many elderly who have sat around for years waiting for surgery and naturally have put on weight, these are personal views.
however if people cannot receive treatment for the afforsaid reasons then this must be disscimination on a grand scale.
i appreciate there will be the odd cases where restraint is needed but not in general.
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It annoys me as there are many people with weight problems who actually have conditions that make them unable to control their weight. For example (it�s the only thing i know about) pcos. In my case i eat around 1,000 calories a day and i walk an hour a day and train (running/rowing/bike) for 2hrs a day 5 nights a week and yet i have a weight problem - i also have pcos and 2 other conditions that are all labelled as factors for someone to put weight on/hard to lose weight.
i don�t drink or smoke and basically feel i do everything in my power to be 'thin'. It hacks me off that everyone is bundled into the same box as everyone else. i wonder why it is fair that they can take my NI contributions off me and yet if they feel like it deny me NHS treatment - it really is a strange world.
i don�t drink or smoke and basically feel i do everything in my power to be 'thin'. It hacks me off that everyone is bundled into the same box as everyone else. i wonder why it is fair that they can take my NI contributions off me and yet if they feel like it deny me NHS treatment - it really is a strange world.
The thing is SG, you cannot defy the laws of physics. If what you say is true then there is no way you can be overweight. Even in starvation mode your body will use 1000 calls a day just sitting down. Are you sure your arithmetic is correct? 2hrs exercise would take 1200 cals at least, you should be a stick insect, there's something wrong somewhere, I mean even with the various glandular problems etc, you cannot defy physics, to coin a phrase from my granddad, "there where no fat people in Belsen". Don't get me wrong I too have a constant battle like you but I know what makes me gain fat and that always just my own fault.
loosehead please do not refer to me as a liar - as i said i have 2 other conditions (that i would rather not talk about on here) that also aid weight gain. What i am saying is not everyone should be put in the same box as everyone else. i don�t know why i bother putting messages on here - just to get called a liar lol.
How comes there are people who sit stuffing their faces all day and do no form of exercise and yet they are thin.
Everyone is different.
How comes there are people who sit stuffing their faces all day and do no form of exercise and yet they are thin.
Everyone is different.
I agree with you SG..I have an underactive thyroid, and even though I am on a regular dose of thyroxine my weight won't shift!
When I was first diagnosed my doctor told me that it was a good job I had been dieting as I would have been twice the size if I hadn't.. I am classed as obese on the scale. Size 14 on the bottom & 16/18 on the top and only 5'2". I look at the photos of me ten years ago when I was a size 10/12 and I weep :o(
When I was first diagnosed my doctor told me that it was a good job I had been dieting as I would have been twice the size if I hadn't.. I am classed as obese on the scale. Size 14 on the bottom & 16/18 on the top and only 5'2". I look at the photos of me ten years ago when I was a size 10/12 and I weep :o(
Sorry I didn't mean to call you a liar, I'm just trying to understand how the laws of physics somehow don't seem to apply, I wasn't being facetious. It just looks to me if some sort of mis calculation is going on. It takes a certain amount of energy to move a known weight a certain distance, that's what Im getting at. For example it would be possible to calulate how much energy, ie calories, it takes to transport a certain weight over a certain distance in a certain time, that is an inescapable law of physics, why then, can your body seem to do it with less energy? The short answer is, it can't so there must be some miscalculation somewhere. That's what I meant, I'm not calling you a liar, I am quesioning the accuracy of some of the factors. You may sincerely believe them youself but something somewhere is innaccurate. It's not a personal attack really, it's quest for understanding.
Yes SG I had the thinning hair, in fact before diagnosis it was coming out in handfuls! I also have brittle nails which have also improved (thank goodness) as I could snap them off quite easily.
Grey skin, tiredness & muscle aches have also improved but not totally disappeared. The tiredness certainly doesn't help when you want to exercise!
Grey skin, tiredness & muscle aches have also improved but not totally disappeared. The tiredness certainly doesn't help when you want to exercise!
Pippa i have all those things in a bad way and when i was tested they said i was borderline - my nails are flaking like no tomorrow - yes life is sooo hard to be honest and comments like before just sum up how people have no ideas about things. I think i might get a blood test soon to see if it has got worse as it has been getting me really down on top of everything.
sorry Shaun for hijacking your post.
sorry Shaun for hijacking your post.
Hi all, my feelings are that if someone has put on weight or caused their illness or accident by their own irresponsibility, perhaps they should be made to pay towards their own care? It is a minefield though and I fully appreciate it would be very difficult trying to work out when to apply it and when not to!
Do agree that it does seem unfair that larger people are judged as being lazy or overeaters when it simply is not the case.
Best wishes, Sue
Do agree that it does seem unfair that larger people are judged as being lazy or overeaters when it simply is not the case.
Best wishes, Sue
loosehead, when a persons body is functioning as it should be then yes, you are correct - the laws of physics apply and a claim that they don;t eat and do exercise cannot be true = however, as SG has stated, her body does not function as it should in two ways.
these two reason are a cause for weight gain ( i have PCOS too, and i am being tested for thyroid so i do know about this and have done my research)
one of the main symptoms for both these thing is weight gain.
whilst most peoples weight gain is caused solely through greed and laziness, in some instances that is not the case.
i think these factors would be taken into consideration if a hospital was treating you - the usual ''obesity'' rule would be dismissed as this time it is not self inflicted
these two reason are a cause for weight gain ( i have PCOS too, and i am being tested for thyroid so i do know about this and have done my research)
one of the main symptoms for both these thing is weight gain.
whilst most peoples weight gain is caused solely through greed and laziness, in some instances that is not the case.
i think these factors would be taken into consideration if a hospital was treating you - the usual ''obesity'' rule would be dismissed as this time it is not self inflicted
Joko, I know what you mean there are factors that make it difficult to not gain weight but PCOS or any other of the ailments that don't help. do not enable physics to be bypassed. Somehow somewhere the evaluation is wrong, the usage of calories is overstatted and/or the intake of calories is understated, full stop. Now I'm not suggesting this but to test any theory you take it to extremes. If SG was to stop eating totally she would lose weight, right? So regardless of the inhibitors her body uses energy, right? Ok OK it's used it more slowly perhaps but sh has not discovered a new source on energy, that energy must come from stored energy or food, right? See what I'm getting at? I have similar problems myself, believe me but in the final analysis the usual equation still works.
lol at Pippa - this subject depresses me soooo much and to hear someone over and over keep making the claim that i am lying is driving me crazy.
For the record i have the brains to know exactly what i am eating and exactly what exercise i do. Also for the record i was very ill for 6 months once where i ate only grapefruit and in that time i didn�t lose any weight (hence how i knew i had some major problems going on) granted at that time i did no exercise but i was hardly eating and yet if anything i was the same weight as always.
If you can work out my "physics" then cool lol but endless doctors, dieticians and specialists have so far been unable to do so. I have only been doing the extreme 2hr a night exercise since last September and i have lost around a stone but in comparison to my a friend ber who eats more than me and does less exercise she lost 4 stone in the same timescale. However, in myself I feel a lot better and it has helped loads with some of the PCOS symptoms.
I wish more research was done into obesity just to stop people making these ill conceived ignorant remarks all the time. As I tell everyone we are all different � I don�t know why I have pcos/weight problems I know I was born with it � I know as a child I was fed very healthy and I did a lot of exercise (minimum 5 miles running a day) and yet I was always the biggest in the class. I have never been able to win and even starving myself (doesn�t work) I hardly ate when I was 17 to the point where I would faint and yet I was fat. I lived on black coffee, diet coke and back then cigarettes. Lucky for me I am learning to just get on with it and not let it rule my life anymore.
Joko great reply by the way.
For the record i have the brains to know exactly what i am eating and exactly what exercise i do. Also for the record i was very ill for 6 months once where i ate only grapefruit and in that time i didn�t lose any weight (hence how i knew i had some major problems going on) granted at that time i did no exercise but i was hardly eating and yet if anything i was the same weight as always.
If you can work out my "physics" then cool lol but endless doctors, dieticians and specialists have so far been unable to do so. I have only been doing the extreme 2hr a night exercise since last September and i have lost around a stone but in comparison to my a friend ber who eats more than me and does less exercise she lost 4 stone in the same timescale. However, in myself I feel a lot better and it has helped loads with some of the PCOS symptoms.
I wish more research was done into obesity just to stop people making these ill conceived ignorant remarks all the time. As I tell everyone we are all different � I don�t know why I have pcos/weight problems I know I was born with it � I know as a child I was fed very healthy and I did a lot of exercise (minimum 5 miles running a day) and yet I was always the biggest in the class. I have never been able to win and even starving myself (doesn�t work) I hardly ate when I was 17 to the point where I would faint and yet I was fat. I lived on black coffee, diet coke and back then cigarettes. Lucky for me I am learning to just get on with it and not let it rule my life anymore.
Joko great reply by the way.
Really SG, I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just trying to understand. You have given me new info though, you lost 2 stone, therefore you can create a calorie difficiency, well done. What I said earlier was based on the facts in your first post, I was under the impression you doing more exercise than the SAS and eating the same as a hampster and still not losing weight. Don't take it personally really, I mean even your doctors can't explain it, then fine I'm not calling you a liar, I'm saying the collective "we" are not accounting for everything. Don't get me wrong I have problems myself, I work out 6 days a wek and watch what I eat and I'm still overweight, I can vary by 6 pounds up or down in a day, I can't explain it either. I suppose the tone of my writing is not communicating my feeling about this very well but I'm not having a go really I'm not.
loosehead - that is exactly what it does - it alters the usual and expected outcome.
also this is not really a ''laws of physics'' issue.
it is medical and biological - and both those two say it can and does happen - it is an illness - the laws of physics don't apply here.
i understand your sums don't add up, but then we are not using a normal calculator here.
lots of things ''shouldn't'' happen - but they do, and the point is you could be doing sas style exercise and eating like a hamster - and still be fat - if you have PCOS or some other illness.
also this is not really a ''laws of physics'' issue.
it is medical and biological - and both those two say it can and does happen - it is an illness - the laws of physics don't apply here.
i understand your sums don't add up, but then we are not using a normal calculator here.
lots of things ''shouldn't'' happen - but they do, and the point is you could be doing sas style exercise and eating like a hamster - and still be fat - if you have PCOS or some other illness.
i think you understood quite well the point i was making loosehead.
i really don't understand why you cannot get your head round this pretty simple concept - it is a FACT, it happens - whether you can get your head around it is neither here nor there... it does not change it.
of course energy comes from some source!
sleeping and eating - and your point?
the point is, for the last time, someone with any of these diseases does not burn off fat in the same way as a healthy person - something about the disease, holds on to the fat cells, some also process food and nutrients differently, meaning less fat is expelled in the normal way.
what about people with other illnesses that cause extreme fatigue - they walk ten feet and are shattered - that makes no sense either does it? your sums won't tally there will they?
what about people who get too hot or too cold - perhaps hot flushes, or fevers - when they haven't even moved? that makes no sense either - but it happens!
what about malabsorption? you could eat a house and still have no energy and nutritional deficiencies.
i suggest you research these illnesses if you wan't to know more about what actually happens to the body
i really don't understand why you cannot get your head round this pretty simple concept - it is a FACT, it happens - whether you can get your head around it is neither here nor there... it does not change it.
of course energy comes from some source!
sleeping and eating - and your point?
the point is, for the last time, someone with any of these diseases does not burn off fat in the same way as a healthy person - something about the disease, holds on to the fat cells, some also process food and nutrients differently, meaning less fat is expelled in the normal way.
what about people with other illnesses that cause extreme fatigue - they walk ten feet and are shattered - that makes no sense either does it? your sums won't tally there will they?
what about people who get too hot or too cold - perhaps hot flushes, or fevers - when they haven't even moved? that makes no sense either - but it happens!
what about malabsorption? you could eat a house and still have no energy and nutritional deficiencies.
i suggest you research these illnesses if you wan't to know more about what actually happens to the body
I get what you are saying, I'm just at odds with some of the terminology you are using. Yes I know about the slow metabalism etc etc but whatever is happening is within the understanding of energy supply v energy usage. That's all I'm saying. The body in question clearly needs very little energy to function fine I get it. I just seem not to be able to get across to you et al without you assuming I'm having a go, I'm not.
It takes one joule to move one KG one metre. For a body to do it takes the same, the Joule must come from somewhere, that's all I've been saying.
It takes one joule to move one KG one metre. For a body to do it takes the same, the Joule must come from somewhere, that's all I've been saying.
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