how to deal with a crashed motorcyclist or hit pedestrian...

[joko]

I suspect that many lives have been lost due to the over zealous, unthinking adherance to the one little snippet of first-aid information that most people know about motorcyclists and accident victims -
''don't remove their helmet or don't move them because of their neck and back!''

One important factor in this is - only if they are breathing and safe!

If someone isn't breathing, leaving them untouched for 15 minutes to wait for the ambulance - because you ''can't remove the helmet'' - is pretty pointless - their neck may be fine, but if they are dead, whats the point??

I have experienced this myself - a girl freaked out and refused to let anyone touch the man because of his neck - and I have heard many other people state this vehemently, that thats what you should do at all costs.

it obviously began because unthinking bystanders would cause more damage to the victim, by trying to get them up, or yanking the helmet off, but its become common knowledge by means of chinese whisper, instead of being taught properly.

I think this is yet another good case for the teaching of first aid in schools.

what do you think?

[bobtheduck-]

i think motorbikes should be banned from the roads to be honest they are a death trap, bascially a man sitting on top of a high powered engine between two wheels with no protection whatsoever

[dot.hawkes]

It is in the highway code not to remove the helmet unless it is absolutely essential.

[Bellringer]

joko; If they are not breathing and you leave them for 15 minutes they are dead anyway. Take the course, learn how to remove a crash helmet and how to give CPR to a person with neck injuries.
Granted, if you don't know how to do it, LEAVE IT.

[Bellringer]

joko: I've just re-read your question. It seems we are in agreement on most points. I got a bit carried away as First Aid has been my life for so long.

[raysparx1]

What you have said joko is so true, but why restrict it to schools, all work places should have first aid courses, I had to attend them yearly when I was running football teams, and bob there is nothing wrong with motorbikes, it is the idiots that ride them, and also the fact that car drivers are unaware of them, if everybody had to ride a motorbike for a couple of months before they drove a car, it would make the motorist aware of the problems motor cyclists have.

[Bellringer]

I must be getting old, I am agreeing with people. Ray is right, everyone should be obliged to ride a motor bike before they are allowed to drive four wheels. My motto was always "When you are on 2 wheels you are invisible to four wheels"

[Joe_the_Lion]

The things that gets me with first aid, is if anybody faints or collapses etc, the first thing people do is wrap the victim up!!!! Unless they are in deep, deep shock or you are in the bloody Artic, it is not worth it. Also when people do, they pile on the coats yet any cold is coming from the bloody ground.

[Bellringer]

Well said joe. A blanket under is worth 2 on top as any first aider knows. BUT be very careful turning them onto it. Again; learn how to do it properly.

[joko]

true dot, but many people have never read it, and the ones who have tend to focus on the stuff they need to pass their test.
most people know this ''rule'' through word of mouth or off the telly, they don't really understand the situation

saying ''unless its essential'' unfortunately doesn't always translate into logic to people, and they will sit an watch and do nothing.

It should say ''if they are not breathing, you must remove the helmet and try to get them breathing''.

When this girl was flapping and not letting anyone touch him, i had to shout at her to get her to understand the logic - that if they are not breathing, the condition of their neck is irrelevant.
eventually someone removed her from the scene, but it was this blind ''sticking to the rules'' that was frustrating - had she done something sooner, he may well have lived.

ray, i wouldn't restrict it at all, it should be taught everywhere!
i just meant that, if it is taught in schools, at an age when it could become almost second nature, and you could be sure that all kids were on the same level, people wouldn't be so afraid to do anything and they wouldn't stand around looking distressed and lost and not actually helping.

not all adults work in places were teaching this would be feasible, some don't work, some are self employed, etc etc, so do it when they are young and more open and all in one place.

lol bellringer, i did wonder what you were on about!

[raysparx1]

Hi Joko, it would be great if it could be taught in schools, as you rightly say catch em early and they learn, as for the learning at work, I forgot that some, well rather a lot don't work, I am self employed and I know I would jump at the chance of refesher courses, and I know most of the lads I work with would, in fact it would be great if when you go self employed you had to do a basic first aid course.if only eh. !!

[Joe_the_Lion]

Have you ever been electrified Uncle?

[raysparx1]

wardy I have had plenty of electric shocks, my own stupid fault, cos I do tend to work on live cables sometimes, stupid thing to do, and I am going to stop doing it, I have pushed my luck far enough.

[Joe_the_Lion]

Has your hair ever stood up like Stan Laurels, or the little lad from Jurassic Park when he is scaling the Electric fence?

[raysparx1]

Not yet wardy, shall I try it again ? jesus fancy ending up like stanley. no on second thoughts, I don't want another one, they make you jump, but are supposed to do you good.

[Ethel]

A friend of mine died 20 years ago in a 'minor' motorbike accident.

He didn't die as a direct result of his injuries - he choked on his vomit because he was wearing a full faced helmet. Had he been wearing the old pudding basin style helmet it is likely he would have survived.

So I agree - removing the helmet is essential where safe to do so. The problem is determining when it is safe and necessary.