Arthritis

[woodelf]

Is there any solid proof that copper wrist bracelets or armlets help ease the pain of arthritis? Ta Muchly.

[boxtops]

It may be "all in the mind" but it's worked for many of us!

[shaneystar2]

If they were any good woodelf I would be running and leaping about like a spring chicken as I used to do instead of crunching and creaking about in considerable pain for a lot of the time They certainly do nothing for severe osteoarthritis + the add on factor of rheumatoid .Save your money and buy some Glucosamine if it's not too severe and if it is severe see your doctor.Try and keep moving at all costs ...smile .....

[Sachs]

& microwave wheatbags elf! x

[shaneystar2]

Hi Sachs ..don't forget the old hot water bottle :)

[Old_Geezer]

I've tried them. I'm unconvinced. Of course one can not tell how one would feel if not trying them, when you've opted to they them. And vice versa. :-)

[Sachs]

Hiya shaney xxx
also those beanbag draught excluder type things on a smaller scale that you can put under your neck in bed at night or wherever. Got to say I use anadin extra but they don't agree with everyone! Always read the leaflet inside! x

[Sqad]

By "solid proof" I assume you mean scientific proof........the answer is still NO.

[Quizmonster]

SHANEY! Where on earth have you been or have I just been in the wrong AnswerBank categories to see you? Seems like years, whatever. Good to see you and I wish you better health.

(My apologies, Woodelf, for hijacking your thread for a personal greeting.)

[jake-the-peg]

`The power of placebo is an amazing thing - especially with cronic pain like arthritis.

There's even evidence of physiological changes (increased dopamine production in the brain) in response to a placebo.

So in that sense the answer is yes but not in the more conventional sense of proper double blind tests.

So a lot depends on how much you personally are willing to believe it will help you.

Unfortunately as you are asking the question I suspect you are unlikely to benefit

[Sqad]

jake:

///Is there any solid proof ///

That was the question, so how could the answer be YES in any sense?

[woodelf]

Hi Sachs, lovely to see you again xxx and Ta! Hey Shaney, who you callin' an old hot water bottle then?...smile. That's okay Quiz, it's always nice to give a personal greeting. Jake, I'm taking Codridamol *or whatever it's called* but I need all the help I can get as my hands are my eyes...so Thanks to All you guys...and another x for Sachs!

[shaneystar2]

Hi again woodelf ..smile ..
Is the arthritic pain in your hands ? If so try Feldene .Colourless gel which you rub in .Not greasy at all and quite effective .Unfortunately there's not much you can do about the knobbly bits in the fingers .If you have Heberden's nodes,the pain will eventually subside once the knobbly bits get to a certain stage .But of course this leaves you with less dexterity .I'm a dab hand ( pardon the pun) at dropping and breaking things .
Drugs have their place but they do have side effects in the long term .
Try a bracelet by all means as what suits one doesn't suit another .They just don't work for me . But.. there's no harm in giving one a try . I've tried the lot ,believe me ..smile .Hope you soon feel better .. big smile .

Hi QM ..nice to see you . I'm still floating around from time to time :)
Hope you and yours are all well .

[jake-the-peg]

Sqad

If someone was prescribed a medication which resulted in extra dopamine production in the brain which reduced pain in a large number of patients there would be no question.

In this case there is a disconnect in the mechanism - the patient receives a placebo, they produce dopamine that reduces their pain.

The effect is the same and it is scientifically measurable - that's why we have double blind tests in the first place!

It's a grey area and it depends exactly what question you ask.

Is there scientific evidence that these things reduce the pain sufferers have yes

Is there scientific evidence that they and they alone directly do this no

[Sqad]

jake ...the placebo effect is only comes into play when one is comparing one method of treatment against no treatment.

Group A has the active ingredients Group B has either no treatment or pills which contain no active ingredient. i.e the patient has no idea which he/she is having.

This is not the case here are are comparing 2 methods of treatment i.e anti rheumatic agents and copper band..i.e the patient knows what he is taking and hence the placebo effect does not come into play.

[jake-the-peg]

No, disagree

Placebos work on their own.

There is a mountain of evidence, there have even been placebo operations where patients have believed they were undergoing knee operations when in fact they were just opened up and nothing happened.

They were under local anasthetic and saw videos of operations as if it was theirs live.

After the operation they showed significant improvements as if they had had a real operation.

There is also the nocibo effect where people can suffer significant harm believing that they have been poisoned or acted against. Symptons include dangerous drops in blood pressure

This is probably the mechanism by which "witchcraft" has worked in some cases

[jake-the-peg]

Check out the placebo effect in Parkinson's disease

Work done in Canada in 2002

http://www.sciencedir...131b8ca502a537f621828

Actual physiological change in response to placebo

[Sqad]

jake...thanks for the link.

I couldn't get into the details as one has to register, but the conclusions that I gathered from the abstract was that the results were inconclusive and the release of Dopamine MIGHT in part explain the placebo effect.

I have no argument with those results....although I have never seen how the trial was set up, but the point is, that one group did not know what they were having and this invoked the placebo effect.

In the case of the copper ring against drugs, BOTH groups knew what they were taking, invalidating the placebo effect. i.e....they were told that copper rings worked for some and hence were prejudiced.

Now if one wanted to see the effects of the placebo effect, one group would be given the copper bracelet and the others given pills containing no active ingredient.
Now if the copper bracelet group did better, then we are in business, but I have never seen such a scientific trial.
If you have, could you please give me the link.

[woodelf]

Thanks Shaney, I'll give Feldene a try. It's not that I'm ill, it's that every now and again I feel like I'm wearing gloves of pain...highly melodramatic, eh?...but normally, it's just dull pain, but Thanks again. Enjoying the discussion between Sqad and Jake though.

[shaneystar2]

Not melodramitic at all woodelf .Like you with your painting I use my hands for hobbies and crafts .And there are lots of fiddly things that I cannot do any more .Well...I can ,but it's hard work with fingers like sausages on a bad day and don't get me started on peeling and chopping veg.. ..smile .
Funnily enough a friend commented recently that my handwriting is more illegible than ever ,but having corresponded for over forty years she can still make it out ....smile ....
You'll have to take up knitting .....huge smile xx
I'll leave the scientists and doctors to their own conclusions :)

[woodelf]

Take up knitting?...what the heck do ya think got me into this state to begin with....only joking!...smile.