Greece Pensions?

[EDDIE51]

I was wondering why pensions in Greece seemed to be a major factor in the financial crisis and found this.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2015/06/greek-pensions
It seems Greeks can retire with just 15 years payments into the pension fund. Those in 'strenuous occupations' ( which includes hairdressers!!!) can retire on a full pension at 55. So most people retire at the first possible opportunity and just carry on working in the 'black economy'
It is glaringly obvious that this just can not continue. Can you see anyway out? No wonder the unemployment rate is 25% most of them are just working 'on the black'.

[woofgang]

have you only just found this out?

[hc4361]

The Greek pension payments are very generous, too.

[Old_Geezer]

The problem can't be the age of retirement since one can see from your figures there are a quarter of the working age population who are unemployed that could take the vacated job positions instead of whatever welfare is on offer. The problem, as you make reference to, would appear to be tax evasion.

If pensions are generous it seems to clash with the claim being made, that many are on the breadline. How generous are they ?

[hc4361]

OG, not as high as it was because of the austerity cuts but this is interesting reading

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/17/greece-pension-crisis-people

[tonyav]

Greece have been bailed out again !.
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/greece-crisis-ecb-injects-emergency-cash-into-greek-banks-for-third-time-in-six-days/ar-AAbWbqF

[EDDIE51]

Interesting article hc4361. The devil is in the detail, 49% of families rely on pension as their main or only source of income! While only 37% rely on a salary!
50% unemployment in the under 25s. I assume that is largely due to 'retirees' who are still working in the 'black economy' and do jobs that otherwise would go to the under 25s?

[EDDIE51]

tonyav, Yes, it seems they are being loaned money to pay off previous loans!
The ECB are loaning them 1 to 2 Billion E a DAY yet they still can't pay the 1.6 Billion due for public sector pensions on 30th June. ( Pensions again the problem) . I am sure that yet again we will just 'plug the leaks' for a few more months and the problem will be back.

[Old_Geezer]

Interesting indeed. Even if I have only skimmed it on the mobile. Does seem in need of a good shake up. Welfare only available for a month ? No wonder they are over-reliant on generous State pensions. The difficulty is knowing how to turn that around without causing genuine hardship. Are the job opportunities not available ? Getting the economy working has to be key.

[EDDIE51]

^^ There are a huge number of people working in the 'Black Economy' for cash in hand and no tax. That has always been a problem for Greece, I saw an estimate that only 30% of the tax theoretically due is actually collected!

[Old_Geezer]

And as I mentioned, I think that, rather than the pensions themselves, is the greater problem. Minor black economy, no big deal. Everyone thinking they are getting one up on the rest but as they all do it it evens out. Just gives everyone a 'feel good' factor to their lives. Major black economy and the tax collected becomes insufficient to pay the costs of running the country; which is major concern/problem. May even be the reason there's a time limit of welfare ? If so that perpetuates the situation and will be seen as justification for 'money in hand' being rife. Vicious circle stuff.