Moral dilemma

[andyjevs]

I have a moral dilemma.

A very good fried is fleecing the benifits system for thousands. He does some serious cash in hand work and only declares about �10,000 of his annual income. He then gets a massive tax rebate and is also claiming �450 a month working families tax credits.

Now this wouldn't be too bad but for the fact that he rams it down my throat at every given opportunity. Every thing is money orientated to him and every time he gets someting new, it has to be bigger and better than everyone else and i'm the first one he phones to tell me about it.

He are also using his disabled mums car which they have through the mobility scheeme. They use this permenantly and it's never used to ferry the mum around as she tends to prefer the bus.

What would you do....maybe i'm just jealous.

[lady_p_gold]

These people are criminals and the money they are getting could be used for people who really deserve it and who need help. I agree with those who say that he should be reported.

[noxlumos]

If you feel you should shop him then do so but why anonymously? People get on my nerves that can't be bothered to work for themselves and earn their own money but you do sound as if you wouldn't really have given a toss if he hadn't been such a braggart about it. Is it that you morally object to people playing the system,or do you just mind because he shows off his nice stuff to you and it upsets you? From what you've said he may well get away scot free if you do shop him as it sounds like he's self employed and the self employed are notoriously hard to pin down on their earnings, plus he may have a good accountant who tells him how to avoid paying tax.Remember that he's not acting as a friend to you in the way he "shoves it in your face" but if you are going to act then act out of good faith not jealousy.

[bigbubba]

If you have a car on Motability, it MUST be used for the person who is entitled to the DLA. Although you are 'giving up' your DLA allowance, the car costs much much more than this to run, service, insure than this.

It is a term of the Contract Hire agreement that the vehicle must be used the majority of the time for the person who is eligible for the allowance.

I sell motability cars, it annoys me when we get people in who use motability cars for their work and not for the DLA claimant.

I have in the past reported serious offenders to Motability and they have on occasion had the cars taken of them.

This, in my opinion is as bad as direct benefit fraud as it is still costing the state money.

[sammd]

Shop him but if you want to keep him as a mate don't admit it was you!

[AllYourBase]

Do it now! Regardless of friendship - he's stealing from you (and me!)

[WendyS]

I seem to have come rather late to this post and although you already have an overwhelming verdict of other people to shop him, I can only add my own agreement. Benefit fraud is an enormous problem in this country and those of us who work hard, and go without to save for our own future so we can be independent of the state are supporting these fraudsters, for that is exactly what they are. They are also making it more difficult for those genuinely on benefits because of ill-health or disability to get a fair hearing because of the overwhelming demands on the benefit budget. If you haven't done so already I suggest you report him anonymously. I would also ask yourself very seriously if you really want to count this person as a real friend. He has obviously become an embarrassment to you and if you can find a way of gradually cooling the relationship it may be a relief to you in the long term, especially if he gets prosecuted, otherwise a lot of people may start wondering whether you share his values and are acting in a similarly dishonest manner.

[Dolly1308]

Dob him in ,it's people like him who are crippling the country .Aged pensioners spend their lives worrying how they are going to manage on the pittances they get and scum like this are raking it in .

[gammaray]

It may help Oneeyedvic if you actually bothered to read the posts before responding (perhaps your name gives the best clue as to why you don't) I wasn't suggesting that those people paying cash were commiting fraud, meerly giving the tradesperson the ability so to do. If everyone payed by cheque or credit card the transactions are traceable and therefore there is less oportunity for declaring less than the invoiced total. You will remember that the original poster maintained that this person only ever declared a percentage of cash transactions. There are also charges for paying cash in to a business bank account, just to correct another of your inaccuracies. There aren't of course any charges for just sticking it in your back pocket

I pay tradesman cash to get a discount, I also on occasions speed in my car. We all do! I certainly do not condone fraud or tax evaision but rather than throwing up my hands in horror and rightious indignation, I'm prepared to accept that my actions, in some small way, only serve to perpetuate the problem. I was simply suggesting that other posters do the same.

[ellesbelles]

It,s not a question or whether or not you are jealous of him but why he feels the need to constantly inform you of his purchases etc. Perhaps he feels inferior to you. What is your job or profession compared to his? After all, it's not really a great way of life to be constantly on the make, never knowing when your source is going to dry up. Neither is it an enviable position always wondering whether or not you are going to be caught. Don't shop him in. You should never do this to a friend. You don't know what devastating consequences this could bring and you would be responsible. Chances are someone else will do it anyway. Always think about the millions that big businesses con the tax payer out of with creative accounting so called.

[jason1980]

Hi, his undeclared work also needs to be reported to HM Revenue & Customs (aka inland revenue) on 0800 788 887 as well as the benefit fraud hotline, and possibly the council for housing benefit & council tax fraud.

[joko]

be very careful here, i have read about people doing this and then being terrorised by the person they shopped. in one case the dole told him who'd shopped him!

i would send him an anonymous letter, either just a handwritten note saying you will shop him unless he stops, or a fake headed official looking letter - saying ther have been discrepancies on his account and his action will be being monitored closely over the next 12 months to uncover any fraud etc or whatever

i know its unlikely but he may fall for it and stop. that way at least he gets no more money.

but shopping him, you run the risk of him going to prison, losing his house or whatever etc so it depends on whether you want your mate to go through all that or just stop him.

incidentally, - does any one think that if benefit fraud was stamped out the government would lower the taxes? no, me neither. you will have to pay it anyway regardless of what it goes to pay for.

[Oneeyedvic]

gammaray - "There are also charges for paying cash in to a business bank account, just to correct another of your inaccuracies"

I am fully aware that with a business account it costs money to bank cash (being self employed myself). What you seem to disregard is that if someone pays by credit card or cheque, that money must be paid int oa bank account. Cash doesn't. It can be used to settle other bills, so I maintain that you can save money by taking cash as opposed to card / cheques.

The question was whether to shop a friend you believe to be commiting fraud. My response was an unequivocal yes. Your response indicated that maybe people shouldn't rush to judge or cast the first stone and from that, my interpretation was that you believed andyjevs shouldn't report his friend.

If I am correct in my interpretation, then I maintain my argument. If I am incorrect, and you believe he should be shopped then we are in agreement.

[THECORBYLOON]

joko Fraud sections would NEVER disclose the identity of an informant and they will never tell an informant the progress of an investigation. If someone ends up in prison or loses their house because of fraud then so be it. Folk seem to think Benefit fraud is ok and turn a blind eye to it but it amounts to �2,000,000,000 each year or �80 being taken from every family in the UK. If you suspect fraud, REPORT IT.

[stanleyman]

If you are going to commit a crime, and this is what it is, then you have to keep it to yourself. If this friend is stupid and arrogant enough to boast about it then he deserves to be caught. He obviously does not need the taxpayers money so why should he continue to steal it?

If you saw him robbing a bank or mugging old ladies would you still do nothing? The sad thing is that by boasting to you, he sees you as being as dishonest as him and by not reporting him you really are an accomplice! You could be in trouble for withholding information.

[idontknowit]

Yes Yes Yes please do not hesitate to report this cheat, he is stealing benefit that is for the honest needy, if you are a taxpayer as I am, then you would not lose any sleep over what is a simple choice - do it, if not for yourself then society in general,earn their respect, you deserve it.

[sickmoth]

I think you already know what to do.

Call the number and let the authorities do the rest.

Good luck.

[joko]

corbyloon - well perhaps it was accidental but that is what happened. the articles were all in a magazine, (take a break or chat or something. can't recall which one)

perhaps they overheard a conversation, glanced at a form, 'knows someone', or whatever, i don't know, the articles were told from the victims point of view, but there is a risk or they wouldn't have had a huge article with about 5-6 families telling their stories of victimisation stemming from shopping someone.

I don't think its okay, i merely said be careful and consider the consequences.

i agree this guy doesn't sound like he'd be a great loss as a friend.

also some poeple don't need to be told, they will either guess or assume, rightly or wrongly.

[gammaray]

Oneyedvic being self employed yourself you'll know that any income should be declared as such. The fact that you might use the cash to pay another bill is irrelevant. if you take �100 from someone for doing a job, then you declare a �100 as income. If you use �80 of that cash to pay another bill you don't declare the remaining �20 as income you sill declare �100 and have your accountant offset your bill payments against tax.

The original poster maintained that her friend was not declaring the whole sum as income but only a part. If he, you, or any other self employed person was paid by cheque or credit card these transactions would be traceable and therefore less inclined to abuse. The same applies for payments. As a self employed person you must see the advantage in using a credit or debit card or even a cheque to make payments. They too are easier to trace and when you come to fill in your annual return your accountant has a far easier (and therfore less costly) job of preparing your return for the revenue.

That said, we are however in agreement on the original point made by the poster. This will be the 38th post to this question that must be some kind of record!

[joko]

lol gammaray - you can tell your new! there is a post on 122 at the moment! muslim extremists in news. many posts go up into the 60s even 80s and 90s

[sandbach99]

Both he and his mother are stealing benefit which they are not entitled to.
His mother is not entitled to mobility allowance if she can use the bus, unless the bus stop is in front of her house etc. This benefit is only payable if you have difficulty in walking due to ill health, ie due to a disablement or due to pain when walking which stops you walking, the car should only be used for helping the disabled person not as someone elses runaround.

Entitlement to these benefits could also make someone else entitlted to Carers allowance, your friend or someone else may also claim this though clearly the mother does not need a carer. Report this on 0845 712 3456 [DLA office number] or fraud line 0800 8544 40 its your tax money funding his live style.