mens roles with the kids...

[joko]

why, when referring to men looking after the babies/kids, is it often seen as 'helping out', as though they are merely lending a helping hand to the mother, or just 'doing a bit to take the weight off'...?
rather than doing their fair share...

isnt it time it was recognised and acknowledged that men have an equal role and equal responsibity to childcare, and their role is as partner, not assistant or helper...

i know its just words, but still, it kind of gives the idea that its nothing to do with them...
is this possibly subconsciously why so many men are crap at child rearing and just sit back with the idea that its 'womens work' and that they only have to step in when its really hard, or only do the little traditionally 'mens' jobs like, carrying them up to bed, giving them lifts, painting their room, cleaning poo off their shoes, filling the paddling pool etc etc...

[cazzz1975]

a lot of generalisations there joko, a lot of men do more than lend a hand these days.

[sherrardk]

My husband doesn't do as much with/for the kids because he works long hours. However, when he is here he pulls his weight - getting them ready for bed, bath time, helping with homework, etc. We go out most Sundays and I will take charge of one of the twins and he will have the other (in terms of holding their hand by roads, cutting up their food, etc), the others don't need so much looking after when we a out and about.

However, I will say that I think he is probably a lot more hands on than some dads.

[China Doll]

I think it depends on the man. I clearly remember my father toweling, brushing and drying (with hairdryer) the hair of my sisters and I just because he really enjoyed doing that and spending the time with us. We preferred him doing it because he was more gentle than mum! He also did most of the grocery shopping, the ironing and cleaned our rooms as well as general stuff. And yes, he cleaned our shoes too :c)

[joko]

cazzz, and i am referring to the ones that dont, not the ones that do...

[erin-x]

You have just pretty much described my dad in that last paragraph but that does not by any means, mean that he was "crap" at general parenting. Thats just how the roles in our house were split up so to say. When my mum was in hospital for a few weeks when I was younger, he took on both roles and done a fine job.

[joko]

and of course i dont mean all men

[joko]

i have no doubt that some dads do a great job, i am sure many of you will say you or your dad did loads, but thats not the point i am making - its the notion that when they do something, its helping out, rather than doing what they are supposed to be doing... like the job is for females and they just assist...

[sherrardk]

I don't feel himself is helping out - it's what he should be doing (and should want to do).

[sara3]

I think that's *your* view.

[joko]

it isnt 'my' view at all sara ... i didnt invent it, i have heard many people say it ... it is very often how its phrased... and its hardly an unheard of concept...

are you trying to say that all men take a totally equal role in childcare and there is no more old fashioned views that chilcare is the womens job?

i suspect you have not actually read or understood my question properly...

[sara3]

lol.. I think people are people.

not all Sagittarians are sporty. not all women get excited at Jimmy Choo shoes. not all Irish women have a freckle on their breast.

so no, I wouldn't say "all men" are anything.

[joko]

neither did i sara... my post is not about whether men are good dads or not, nor is it slagging men off... its about the perception of their role...

i have lost count of the times those words have been spoken by men and women..."i help out around the home", " he never helps me with the kids", "he's really good, always helps me out", "i help the wife when she needs it" , etc etc

[sherrardk]

I hear comments like that and I tend to think that it is a bit off - the women accept that they a being given a 'hand' with the children and the men think it's sufficient. However, if that's how their households work, then that is up to them - it's not how ours works.

[andy-hughes]

This comes down to cultural sterotyping, which is evolving as generations move on.

The car of children was far more defined in previous generations because women rarely worked, but stayed hom and cared for children. in our modern society, far more responsibilities are shared, and that includes child care.

I always adored bathing my daughters and reading them stories, it was part of our routine, and I miss it even now, and envy them their time with their own children doing the same things we did.

I have always been the 'go to' nappy changer with children and grandchildren!

[joko]

its not that they dont do enough, its more that whatever they do do is regarded as assistance, rather than simply doing their 'job' as a parent...as though being male means they take a secondary parental role... even if the father does 70% of the childcare they would probably still view it as 'helping out' the mother

[joko]

thats true andy.
i have heard male friends speak as though expecting a medal because they changed a few nappies...and they only did them because the mother was out or something...they only do things when they have to, rather than seeing it as their share...

[bednobs]

i think that while pternity employment law has now changed, in that dads can take the SMP instead of the mum, the more usual way of doing it is that the mum takes time off work, while the dad still works. Therefore, looking after the baby becomes their "job" (they are getting paid by the goverment to do it) I wouldn't expect my husband to come to my workplace and answer my emails, and ring my clients, therefore perhaps i shouldn't expect anything different at home. The fact that women breast feed also changes the dynamic - men smplt can't do it!

[EvianBaby]

My boss often refers to himself 'babysitting' his children. He lives with his wife and kids.

They're your children, you're not babysitting them! You're being their Dad.