How would you treat someone like this.

[Lonnie]

If someone you know was say, twenty four years old, but had a mental age of about twenty months, would you treat this person as an adult or toddler?, not forgetting that legally, he/she is an adult.

Many thanks.

[coccinelle]

Personally, I treat people all the same; with respect wether it's a child or adult. Each person is different so all depends how this person behaves as to how I'd communicate and my attitude towards them.

[raysparx1]

Hi Lonnie, I would do same as coccinelle, and treat with respect, although in age maybe regarded as adult, a;though it is not possible to communicate as you would with an adult, obviously this sort of situation could cause all sorts of problems, as any person aged 24 has strength and if say you were trying to restrain because of bad behaviour it would be extremely hard, would you then be taking advantage of the mental age? this is a very hard question to answer and seriously needs a hell of a lot of thinking about. would any talking to them actually be absorbed into the brain and remembered? quite a dilema Lonnie, wil do some thinking and come back to you, take care, Ray

[terambulan]

If the person is mentally retarded, have some respect and dont abuse them!

[Lonnie]

coccinelle,
Thanks for your reply, its well thought out, but i'll add a bit more if you don't mind, bearing in mind you've basically got a twentyfour year old toddler on you hands, he/she doesn't speak, and understands approx a dozen on syllable words.


Ray,
Its great to see you here, and you've gone straight to the heart, a mental toddler with the strength of an adult.
I'm looking forward to seeing what else you come up with.

terambulan.
Can you explain what you mean by abuse please?.

[coccinelle]

Well, you can't communicate with this person as an adult if they only understand ten or so words and I can quite imagine this person gets frustrated so could well get angry. Probably, touch and visual communication using books could help. I think you should seek professional advice on this one.

[4getmenot]

I was going to ask a question like this this mornign as on GMTV today a woman was interviewing a lad in his 20's about his job etc and speaking to him like he was a 10 yr old just because he had down sydrome.

[jno]

I guess you have to speak to them as you would to a child - not baby talk, necessarily, but simple words and sentences. As with anyone else, if you want to make yourself understood you have to talk in terms that the listener will comprehend. But dealing with them physically is another matter, as ray says. It's probably pointless trying to discipline them - you do that to a child in the expectation that he'll learn from it, but I presume an adult is pretty much past the learning stage. Part of it I suppose will depend on whether the person actually recognises and responds to you?

[Lonnie]

Thanks coccinelle,
Not knowing the exact situation, thats a very sensible reply,
Professionals are involved, but its still a sticky one, because some of the carers treat this person as an adult, while some treat her as a toddler, and the parents also as a toddler, but as ray said, she has the strength of a twentyfour year old.

Hi 4getmenot,
I didn't see that, but in my experience of Downs, in most cases, they should be treated as per their age.What was your view on it, I'm interested.

jno,
Thats a terrific answer, its my daughter, I wasn't going to say that, but thats exactly what we, her parents, and some of her carers do, as she picks words out of sentences, but we do emphasize the relevent words.

We've been told by somone in authority, that we should treat her as an adult in all things, which is why I put up this post.

[raysparx1]

Hi Lonnie, been thinking on this one and it seems to me an almost impossible dilema, if a child is 2 years old and doing something that could harm them you can take complete control and remove the child from the danger, but a 24 year old with the mentality of a 2 year old is so different, not only frustrating for you but also your daughter, because we cannot see inside her head, maybe at the back of the brain is one part that is not 2 years old and knows what it wants to do, but is unable to get the brain to send the messages to the right part. maybe I am completely wrong in my thinking.

I really cannot see how you can treat her as an adult apart from the respect she deserves, but on the other hand she is an adult with the brain of a child, I so admire what people like you do, and as I have said to you before, I really do believe that babies that are born like your daughter are given to special people who somehow cope with all the problems.

if the so called experts are giving you conflicting advice, there obviously can't be any easy answer, you have probably always gone by instinct. and I do think that can be the only way to deal with her. wish you good health and the strength to carry on doing an amazing job, take care Lonnie, will mail you soon, Ray

[puddicat]

please dont call anyone a retard that expression does not exsist anymore!!

[puddicat]

sorry meant retarted same difference

[Lonnie]

puddicat,
A very great thanks for your remarks, thats something I should have mentioned, didn't, and you did.
Magic.

Hi Ray,
You certainly have put some thought into this,. I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate it, and its good to know that sensible people line yourself, who have had children,(toddlers in the past), obviously not like my daughter, but because of your own experience with toddlers mentality, can transpose that to an adult, and come up with a realistic insight.

Both my wife and myself don't talk to her as a toddler, but we phrase our sentences in a way she can pick out words she knows, and make sense of them.

many thanks.

[raysparx1]

Hi Lonnie, thanks for that, speak soon, this is for you.

adults body, childs mind.
your always there,always kind
simple words are all I know
you say yes,I say no
you say stop,I say go
can you see inside my head
when you tuck me up in bed?
Love you mum,love you dad,
make you happy,make you sad
adults body,childs mind.
always there,always kind
few can feel the love we share
Thank you both,for being there.

[cruella]

Lonnie,
Nice to see a thread on here from you.
I think you and your Wife have done a great job so far with your Daughter.
The so called experts are so quick to give advice.. but they never seem to look at the WHOLE picture.
Each situation with your Daughter has to be dealt with, as and when it arises.
No doubt that your daughter does absorb a certain amount, maybe not a lot, so you and your Wife are the best judges of that.
Hence, some instances ought to be dealt with your head, others with your heart.
I would say, go with your gut feeling for different circumstances.
Text book answers and solutions are not always right. Just keep doing what you are both doing now. It's worked so far. Give her a big hug from too Lonnie. xxx

[moonshadow]

Hello Lonnie, some years before retirement it was my privilege to care for adults with learning disabilities. We has some wonderful results using signing and board books to help with communication. I have read recently that they are now using very similar methods to teach babies to communicate.I have looked up the subject and it appears Nancy Cadjan has written a book you may find interesting called 1-2-3. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to communicate what you want and this in turn can cause a lot of bad behaviour.It could open up a whole new world if your daughter is able to just learn a few words.

[Lonnie]

Ray,
That poem is pure magic, the word my wife used was beautiful'
I've pasted it, and i'll use it also, but as a matter of interest, would you mind telling me where you found it?.

Hi Cruella,
Its always good to see your name on a reply,
I hope your well.

Your words are words of wisdom, and I really appreciate that.
Obviously, as our daughter parents, (stating the obvious), and at the age she is, we know her habits, behavioural bits and pieces, how she is likely to react to any situation, what she understands.
Our real problem, is convincing the people in authority of that. we've always said, if anyone has a problem with her bhaviour, ask us, and we'll tell you haw to handle it, or avoid it.
But they never have, they know best, So they say.

A great many thanks, and she'll get her hug when she comes home from the centre.

Moonshadow,
Thanks to you for your reply, i've made a note of that book, i'm always ready to read anything that may help, but as for her saying a few words, its possible, but not likely. Her Tongue starts near the bottom of her throat, so is extra long, and also, she can't move her jaw in the figure eight, which is what we do when chewing, (they are connected), although she does have a full vocal range, and even though we can't put an exact mental age on her, the sounds she makes, are the sounds of a baby, gurgling etc.
many thanks again, especially the lead to that book.

[4getmenot]

I just didnt like the way she was speaking to him. It was quite unbearable to watch, he was explaining about his job he had and she was treating him like he was at primary school

[raysparx1]

Hi Lonnie, hope things are ok at the moment, so glad you liked the poem, it is a poem I wrote myself when thinking about you and your daughter, I am so glad you liked it, probably some of the words are not quite right, and some mispelt, speak to you soon, thinking of you, take care, Ray

[Lonnie]

4getmenot,, I guessed from your first reply that was what had happened, unfortunately, thats what happens a lot, when people who have no experience of mental handicaps are faced with it.

With Downs though, in the majority of cases, as also in the one you mention, are perfectly able to lead independent lives and earn for themselves.
I bet he was able to answer the questions competently, and with no help.

I remember, some years ago, toalking to a Downs chap, he'd just got a job, and was so pleased and proud about it, also, he said he was surprised at getting it.
He understood completely discrimination.

Believe me, I could tell you stories about Downs people, and you'd be surprised at how they cope.

Apologies for going on a bit, first evening out for ages, and a bit Brahms.

Ray,
You composed that poem yourself, the thought you've put into it I can't imagine, i'm going to have it framed.

Thank you.

[shanx]

lonnie , i dont really know what to say , i am trying to put myself in your situation , maybe i would treat as an adult when she acts like an adult , and a child when she acts like a child .its hard .