A Sinister Development . . . . .

[Canary42]

. . . . but just another example of the advance of Fascism in this country I suppose. A woman will be forced into hospital to give birth in spite of suffering from severe agoraphobia. How inhumane.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57108649

[roopower]

I'm not at all sure about this discussion. We do not have the full facts of the situation, and neither does the media, so are we in a position to condemn anyone?

[barry1010]

The Court of Protection would not be involved if there were not serious concerns and the assessment and rules for determing lack of mental capacity are very strict.
There will be much more to this than the papers have reported.

[ToraToraTora]

so canary is now an obstetrician! Is there no limit to your skills?

[Prudie]

I find most posters' comments thought provoking and can see all sides however it is not the norm for choice of location for childbirth to be judged in court so there must be much more to this than we know. As for fascism it's got absolutely nothing to do with politics, if it had I would call it akin to nanny state behaviour which I consider more favoured by the left wing.

[pastafreak]

The woman's agoraphobia may be a distraction from what may be the actual reasons for denial of a home birth. We only have what's been reported.

[woofgang]

"I find the judge's apparent statement "that due to her agoraphobia she does not have the mental capacity..." somewhat ignorant, and insulting . Yes, based on her fears she might make different decisions than what others think appropriate, but this has nothing to do with mental capacity. "

pasta in this case, it absolutely does in law although I agree the terminology is clumsy and its quite unusual to make capacity judgements ahead of the situation when the incapacity is adjudged to be temporary. Ther capacity tests, off the top of my head are around deciding if the person AT THE TIME THE DECISION IS NEEDED is capable of understanding the issues pro and con and ramifications of their decision. If the answer is no, then the next test is whether the decision can be postponed and if it can be, would that change the capacity ability. The next step is to identify if possible what the person would choose if they had the capacity to do so. I would suggest that in this case it's known that the person would choose to go to hospital, and that they have probably already expressed this, but they know that in the grip of the phobia, they won't be able to leave the house unaided and that aid might need to be forceful. Given that she is carrying a child then assistance by medication may not be possible, indeed she may have needed to modify her meds while pregnant.
As I said, right now, she may have capacity to understand the issue and make her own decision but at the point where she actually needs to leave the house, then her panic reaction may be so strong that AT THAT TIME she loses the capacity to decide. Its possible/likely that she knows this and understands that the medical staff need legal permission to act should it be needed.

Actually I am sorry that this made the news. her life must be hard enough without being made public.

[barry1010]

It's not public, she hasn't been named - all we know about her is that she is 21 and 'lives far from London'.

[barry1010]

This brings back memories for my wife and I. We had planned a home birth down to the finest detail, pregnancy progressed well and all was in place.
11 days past due date, we attended the hospital for an appointment to see what was causing the delay and to make sure baby was healthy.
Baby was lying in a transverse position and could never have been born the way nature intended, it is a mystery as to why it wasn't picked up during all the other examinations.
Thankfully my wife was able to have a Caesar with an epidural so was awake throughout, with me present.

Sadly, we can't always have want we so badly want but we were soon often the disappointment and happy to have a healthy baby and wife :)

[jackthehat]

There is scant proper detail in the article but I hope that the Court was sympathetic to the plight of the mother but having been made aware of the possible serious repercussions of having a home-birth has reluctantly come to the decision made.

[ummmm]

I had complications in all 3 of my pregnancies...quite serious, but gave birth without a hitch.

[pastafreak]

I had an emergency c-section...but even without that need, I'd never choose a homebirth.
Thanks for the detailed explanation woof.

[woofgang]

many years ago (more than 40) I met a lady who had really bad puerpural psychosis after every pregnancy. She knew that when in the grip of it she would need to be sectioned into hospital. She popped in heavily pregnant when I was on placement there which is how I met her and she told me the story. She would come in to "book her place" and then when the episode had subsided and she was back at home, she would bring in the baby for the staff to have a cuddle. I met her when she was expecting her third. I am not saying that sectioning and capacity judgement is ever easy or something that should be the first choice but its not all forcible removal of the rights of the individual and a fascist legal and medical system.