Advice For Daughter Please?

[Smowball]

I’m staying in Norfolk for 2 days to visit family/drop Xmas presents off. I saw daughter yesterday and she is at the absolute end of her tether with her 3 yr old girl. She is very bright, very tall for her age and speaks very well - she understands everything you say and can have a complete conversation with her so she knows what she is doing and saying.
But..... she has the most incredible temper tantrums about absolutely nothing, and about 20 times a day! I’ve seen them and omg..... as for bed time.....
For example it will be dinner and she’ll ask for orange squash. Are you sure? Yes. Is given the squash. She shoves cup across table and goes into full meltdown. DIDNT WANT SQUASH!!!!! They’ve tried ignoring her, telling her off, taking the squash away, trying to calm her down and reason with her, naughty step....nothing works.
Bedtime lastnight. All kisses and cuddles. Takes her to bed. Gets in bed just fine. Mum isn’t even at top of stairs and she is behind her screaming IM NOT TIRED!!!!! Bearing in mind daughter also has a 17 month old she can’t let her just carry on screaming. They did lastnight and she kept it going for well over an hour.
My daughter just collapsed sobbing onto the sofa. This is absolutely every single day and I just don’t know what to suggest anymore.
Any advice??

[Cloverjo]

No, Mikey is still wrong, whether he meant 'mental illness' or 'mental disorder'. IMHO.

[Sqad]

OK...well that is that then ;-) ^^^

[Smowball]

She doesn’t have mental illness! Have been here this morn and they have gone out to do a photo shoot so a quick update. Mums got her dressed all lovely for photos and put a sparkly clip in her hair. Just about to all get in car and she starts slowly pulling clip out,whilst looking at Mum to see what she does. Mum says leave it in as it looks pretty. Daughter stops for a split second..... then carries on. Someone earlier commented that she is seeing how far she can push Mum/see Mums reaction. And she’s definitely doing that. But it’s incredibly hard to ignore all the time.....

[Samuraisan]

Of course she hasn't got a mental illness. As you say she's pushing her mummy to see how far she can go. Your daughter should have just said, okay, take it out, but then you won't quite look like the princess you are. Take the photos like that and laugh about it in 10 years time.

[woofgang]

I don't think she has a mental illness either...I think that she has got a coping problem. I think that the advantage of getting a professional assessment is that it won't be the first (or even the thousand and first) time that a professional has seen this and they will be more likely to be able to suggest what it is she is having trouble coping with and strategies for dealing with it. I am not trying to do distance diagnosis and fully expect to be shouted down for this but there is a collection of symptoms calls Oppositional Defiance Disorder which may fit your GD's behaviour profile....worth looking into anyway? http://www.lanc.org.uk/related-conditions/oppositional-defiant-disorder/

[Smowball]

That’s really interesting woofgang. I’ve never heard of ODD before. It certainly can’t be ruled out. Like the article says, there is no logic to when she melts down or why. But when she’s not doing this she’s an absolute sweetheart.

[Smowball]

I meant to add she’s three and a half. In fact she’s due to start school next year. She’ll be one of the youngest as she won’t be 4 till July but she will look one of the oldest as she’s so tall. (Dad is 6 ft 5)

[emmie]

could you take her for a couple of days, at least give mum a break, or isn't that possible.

[woofgang]

probably a good idea to get assessment/advice before she starts school to give her the best possible start?

[emmie]

personally, and im' no expert i think there is some jealousy going on, which to some extent is to be expected, vying with a baby can be very difficult as she was the apple of her mums eye when she was that age.

[EDDIE51]

Not mental illness mikey was wrong to suggest it. But the latest posts prove she is highly intelligent but bored , frustrated and intentionally provoking her Mum to see how much she can get away with. I don't have an answer, I just wish I did. Only thing I can think of is it possible to get her more hours at nursery or even attend two nurseries or a pre school?

[pixie374]

If anything, I would suggest smow has the younger one, if possible. See how the eldest is with her mum to herself for a while. Eddie, I wouldn't suggest shipping her out more at this stage, but more mental stimulation might be helpful.

[Smowball]

Yes Ive offered to have her. Mums said ok. Going to sort dates out.

[LewPaper]

I think it's scandalous to suggest the poor kid is suffering from a mental illness, disorder or anything else. Is that helping at all? Someone suggested recording her tantrums but perhaps it'd be better (if it's at all possible) to video them - without her knowledge would be important. That way it wouldn't matter if she's on her best behaviour at the critical time of assessment.

[pixie374]

I don't think anyone can say for a 3 year old that they do or don't have any ADHD etc going on... but it doesn't seem likely from the information so far. Tantrums mean nothing except insecurity and an ability to express the emotion in any other way. One sign of ADHD is early development- walking and talking early- but even that is only a small part of it. Personally, I would go with reassurance and positive reinforcement. She sounds intelligent and frustrated more than anything.

[pixie374]

Inability...

[Mamyalynne]

As she's so bright, has anyone thought to ask her - quietly and calmly (no grand inquisition) after the tantrum has subsided , how she actually felt whilst so upset?
If she can't put it into words, ask her to draw it.

The results can be quite illuminating, so often we are simply relieved that calmness has returned we just move on.

Until the next time.

[mikey4444]

Thank you Sqad...that is exactly what I meant.

[woofgang]

yes lew paper it is helping...seeing an expert can at least rule out the possibility that the child does have a developmental problem and either way the parents can get advice on how to help their child.

[pixie374]

Why do you think it isn't just normal tantrums, Mikey?