The second of my surnames - BUTLER pre 1799

[echokilo]

Can anyone help me take my maiden name of Butler back further than I have:

Butler, Zebulon
b. 1799
Tipton
m. Cox, Mary (b. 1809, Bilston)
30 May 1829
West Bromwich - All Saints


Their children are James, Thomas, Stephen, Louisa, Richard and Samuel ........ other details available if it helps ...... TIA

[Rose Maybud]

There's a significant Zebulon Butler presence on the IGI. Looks like there were two of them at least! Batch numbers C010094, C033971, C033972, M033971.
There is a Zebulon baptism on 16 Sep 1798 at St Lawrence, Darlaston, to parents John and Nancy, which looks promising.

[echokilo]

This is where you might be able to solve the mystery - yes, there are two and the children of Zeb above are def correct - however I have never known which of the 2 Zebs is mine!!! All help gratefully received!

[Rose Maybud]

My brain is starting to fade, so this is the latest idea before I give it a rest.

Zebulon was baptised 16 Sep 1798, St Lawrence, Darlaston, son of John Butler and Nancy. This was the second Zebulon they produced: the first was baptised 27 Nov 1796 and died 20 Oct 1797.

Zebulon married twice. His first bride was Sarah Price. They married on 21 Jul 1817, St Lawrence, had a load of children whom I haven't sorted out yet, then Sarah died in 1830. She was buried on 1 Nov 1830 Darlaston, age 25 [puts her birth at 1805 which seems too young, but none of the other burials were before the date of the second marriage. Hmm.]

Anyway, Zebulon then married Mary Cox on 30 May 1831 All Saints, West Bromwich. They were living at Shrubbery Road, Tipton in 1841, Aston Street, Tipton in 1851 and back to Shrubbery Road in 1861.

In 1841 there were older offspring: Betsy 1826, Sarah 1827 Zebulon 1832 Joseph 1834 Mary 1835 and Simeon 1836, not all of them Mary's, of course.

I think there were other children who died young.

Zebulon died in the June Q 1870, age 71, Dudley RD.

[Rose Maybud]

Oh, forgot to say there was a marriage for Zebulon Thomas Butler to Betsy Wright in Sep Q 1861 West Bromwich, and he seems to have died March Q 1863 Dudley, which was sad. This was just before the age at death was included in the index, but could be the Zebulon born 1832. The other Zebulon death that popped up was June Q 1870 Dudley, age 0. Even sadder.

[echokilo]

Thanks Rose Maybud - am not 100% certain as always thought the family with Simeon was not mine - I found his grave in Darlaston and something on it told me h was not my ancestor - but can't recall what that was now - will have to look back at grave photos when I get chance ........... are you sure about Zeb marrying Sarah .... if the death record is correct and she dies in 1830 aged 25, then she was born in 1805 (as you said) and that means she was 12 when they married - and that doesn't seem quite right either!!! I think I need to go backwards from James 1836 born in Tipton as he is 100% my ancestor as I have photos with his DoB written on the back ............. will let you know what I conclude ........ Zeb is driving me crazy!! Thanks so much for taking such an interest and helping me so much!!

[Rose Maybud]

May we go back a stage? Will you tell us more about James born 1836? Zebulon's James was born c 1842. Because in the 1841 Census there is a family headed by Frederick Butler, married to Ann, with children James 1837 and Simeon 1839, living in Church Street, Darlaston. In 1851 Frederick's wife was Nancy (1818), with two more children Marianne 1847, Martha 1850, in Blockall, Darlaston. Frederick (1817 Tipton) was a gunlock filer, James was a gunlock forger which is quite specific, which would help a lot if he was still working with guns in later life.

[echokilo]

My James was born in 1836 as far as I can tell - as i have a photo with that year written on it - but I do also have a record where his dob is 1839 ...... and yes, he was a gunlock filer in later life ...... I am SO confused ... did you see my other question on the same subject? The family with Zeb and Mary and the children (some of whom belong to Zeb and Sarah) seemed like the correct family - but i can't find James, Thos, Steve,Rich, Luoisa or Samuel with their parents (not as Zeb and Mary anyway!!!) arrghhhH!!!

[echokilo]

Does the Fred and Ann family have James, Stephen, Rich, Thos etc with them at the correct point? I can't find these children now!!!! I know I have found them on census previously!!!

[echokilo]

Can you point me in the direction of the Aston St, Tipton 1851 census for Zeb and Mary?? I can't find it and I need to check the childen I know are my ancestors are with them - and hopefully one or 2 of Zeb and Sarah's children too to make the link - seems the 1851 census will be the key!!

[echokilo]

Found the 1851 Rose Maybud - transcribed on ancestry as BUBAR not BUTLER!!! And this proves the connection - I KNOW for certain that James' siblings are Thos, Richd, Stephen, Louisa etc - and they are on the 1851 with Zeb's children fromprevious marriage (Simeone et al) This has been a mystery since I started over 8 years ago - so thanks so much for your help!!

[echokilo]

May have confused you - Simeon is Mary's not Sarah's - what I meant was it's the same family and Sarah's kids were there in 1841 along with Mary's and in 1851 enough of Mary's are still there with her and Zeb to prove the connection!! Have to go to bed!!! Head spinning ..... now I just need to solve the Cuba mystery (see my other question re Butlers - if you dare!!!!)

[Rose Maybud]

Back to Zebulon:
1841 Shrubbery Road, Tipton, Dudley RD Staffs HO107 Piece 982 Book/Folio 10/17 Page 27 - Zebulon 1801, Mary 1811, Betsey 1826, Sarah 1827, Zebulon 1832, Joseph 1834, Mary 1835, Simion 1836

1851 Aston Street, Tipton Ho107 Piece 2029 Folio 594 Page 17
Zeb, Mary, Joseph, Mary, Simeon, Thomas 1839, James 1842, Richard 1844, Stephen 1844, Louisa 1848, Samuel 1850

1861 Shrubbery Road again, RG09 Piece 2044 Folio 37 Page 20
Zeb, mary, Thomas, james, Richard, Stephen, Louisa, Samuel

[echokilo]

Thanks so much - mystery solved .... just Cuba to unravel and I am done!!!