Dna Tests

[I.Caramba]

Almost all of my ancestors are British. But my father's mother's father may have been Asian. Is there any ancestry DNA test that could tell me anything about this? Or is that too many alternation of sexes?

Would it help if my sister took a test instead? Or my female cousin - it would be her mother's mother's father we'd be looking for?

[soapnumpty]

I had my DNA tested recently as I'm interested in where my family comes from. I tested my maternal line, ie mothers mother etc through a company called Oxford Ancestors. Have a look on their website which explains the types of tests to can have. There are two; maternal and paternal. The maternal one traces mitochondrial DNA which is passed from mothers to their children, but only women pass it on (so the line would stop if a mother only had sons). The paternal test tests for the Y-chromosome which is only passed from Fathers to sons.

So, I may be wrong, but I don't think either of these tests would work for you. You need a continuous male line from your fathers mothers father. I don't think they would tell you what you want to know either. They are more to do with where your family came from thousands of years ago.

Alternatively you could try and trace him on a genealogy site such as Ancestry as you aren't going back too many generations. Try obtaining a birth or baptism record for each generation to find out who their parents were, and this may give you some clues. I'm not sure how far back you need to go, but UK census returns from 1851 onwards showed place of birth so if you can find your fathers mothers father on there it should tell you where he was born.

[I.Caramba]

Thank you. I spoke to Oxford Ancestors, but they said they went too far back, hundreds of generations rather than just three. And I have scoured birth/marriage/death records in vain - my great-grandmother was married but it does not look as if her husband was my grandmother's father. That is why I wondered if DNA might give me some hint about who the father was. (I am not expecting to find his name and address or anything like that, unfortunately!)

It did occur to me that someone might know of other sorts of DNA tests that Oxford Ancestors do not do.

[soapnumpty]

Sorry I can't help then. Hopefully someone else will know of another DNA test that can look at your more recent ancestry. Good luck.

[DJHawkes]

This sounds more like a problem for a family historian than for a geneticist. What information do you have that makes you think there is a possibility of Asian ancestry? Is this something that has been talked about and suggested in previous generations of your family?

[I.Caramba]

My grandmother's mother told her nothing; her father-on-paper was Scottish and died when she was two. But grandmother once told one of my aunts she suspected her father was Asian. She definitely looks Asian in old photos; I do not know what other grounds she may have had for her suspicion.

She died before I was born so nobody knows anything more about it than what I have listed above. The nearest thing we have to a family historian is me, unfortunately.

[DJHawkes]

Do you mean that in the photo her complexion appears darker ? Would you be able to post the pic here using the tinypic site?

[I.Caramba]

She has darker skin (my father's was a little lighter, mine is lighter still but still a little olive), and at a guess I would have said Anglo-Indian. Here she is

http://i41.tinypic.com/2ce3si8.jpg

You can never be sure about skin tones without knowing how the photo was exposed, but her complexion appears darker than Scottish would. She looks similar in other photos I have seen. She was around 20 at the time.

[DJHawkes]

Thanks for sharing the picture, she looks stunningly beautiful actually, it's a very intimate photo, not posed and stiff like photos of that era usually are. That is quite unusual. Her eyes really stare into the camera and she is very relaxed too, not sitting rigid to attention as you expect a subject to pose. Her eyes do appear very dark and he features do look very Indian, her facial features not just her apparent dark complexion and dark eyes. Do you know who the photographer might have been, their advert would usually be on the reverse if it was a postcard style from between 1890 and 1910.

[I.Caramba]

No, alas. That was just a photo I took of the original photo, which was quite large and in a frame. But there was no identifying mark for the photographer, possibly removed long ago.

She looks very attractive; she was kind and loving and her children adored her. Her husband, however, was not so nice at all (or so I am told) and treated her with some contempt. My father left home because of it; but he never mentioned this and I heard about it only after his death. I never knew either of them but I would love to have met her, at least.

But it does not sound as though there is any sort of DNA test that will give me any information.

[DJHawkes]

No. probably not, however, is there any possibility that her father was in the British Army?

[I.Caramba]

Who knows, who knows... It could have been anyone at all; I have found no evidence whatever either in public records or in the few private effects and family stories that I've come across. I fear I have hit a classic brick wall.

Ah well, thanks anyway.

[DJHawkes]

No I'm thinking that if her father was in the British Army and possibly served in India then there are a couple of scenarios of varying degrees of possibility.
A) Her father was serving in the British Army and married / had a relationship with an Indian girl who bore your grandmother.
B) Your grandmother's mother had a relationship, as your aunts suggested, with an Indian, (this is a lot less likely I might add).
C) Your grandmother was adopted, possibly being the natural child of your great grandfather.

I think that it is possible your great grandparents spent some time in India and that is possibly through an army career. Have you looked at that aspect at all?

[I.Caramba]

No, Grandma's mother and official father were Scottish, a grocer and a farmer's daughter. I have her birth certificate; it gives both their names. But I know they only married a couple of months earlier (I have that certificate too) and I know Grandma does not look very Scottish, and thought she had an Indian father. There is no obvious Indian connection anywhere. None of them, as far as I know, ever went there.

It is quite possible her mother had a relationship with an Indian, all the same. She had three daughters (the other two left no descendants), the first two outside marriage, and seemingly all to different men. You will be relieved to hear she abandoned her giddy ways and found religion in middle age.

I would like to know more, but there is no further evidence anywhere (censuses, street directories, newspapers, family effects), so I suspect I will have to settle for that.