Tracing marriage info in the 1800's

[Polly1958]

I am trying to trace the maiden name of my G,G,Grandfathers wife.Am i right in thinking that as i have found a volume and page number that is the same as the one given next to my G,G,Grandfathers name and in the same year and quarter that she would be the one?Thanks in advance,Polly

[dothawkes31]

Yes, same year, same quarter, same district, with the identical set of numbers and letters is your match. e.g. Wigan 8c354.

[Polly1958]

Thanks Dothawkes, and what a coincidence you mentioned Wigan as that's where the people in question are from!

[dothawkes31]

Lol well up until last month I worked in Wigan in the next road to the register office! I've done loads of research there, what are the surnames?

[Polly1958]

I did find them thankyou, they were Thomas Whitter and Annie Tait,but i'm struggling with his fathers marriage.He was Thomas too, born in Pemberton @1849 the only one that i can find was married in Liverpool in 1866 which would have made him 18,but i cant find anyone that could be his wife (Mary born in Wigan@1850) that fits the information given. Any help would be much appreciated,thanks dot.

[dothawkes31]

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/communicate/geneinfo.php?opt=gene&gid=305&gline=6 />
Friday, April 20, 1860.
BREAKING A MAN'S ARM WITH A POKER.
Ellen Sharples, a middle aged woman, who is employed on a coal pit brow, was charged with assaulting James Whitter, of Standish, collier. - Mr. Mayhew appeared for the defendant. - The complainant said he was going home on Saturday night last, and on passing the defendant's house at Douglas Bank she called him in, to ask him some questions in reference to her son. He told her that her son was not worth talking about, whereupon she got very violent, and after some words had been exchanged she seized the poker and attempted to strike him on the head. He, however, put up his arm to ward off the blow, and caught the weapon upon the joint. He then received two other blows, and was disabled, medical attendance having to be called in. - The defence was that the complainant was the aggressor, the defendant's version of the affair being that the complainant, on the night in question, walked into her house unasked, in a state of intoxication, and wanted some tobacco given him. This was not supplied, and he pulled out threehalfpence to pay for some, but he was told he was not wanted, and had better go out of the house. He accordingly left, but returned directly afterwards, and commenced to assail defendant with all sorts of foul names, becoming exceedingly abusive. An attempt was made to put him out of the house, and the defendant admitted that in her anger she took up the poker and struck the complainant. - The bench said an assault had been committed, but as there were extenuating circumstances in the case they should only inflict a fine of 10s. and costs.

[Polly1958]

Thanks for all the information,i will have a look later at the wigan site.Slowly trawling through all the Annies married in Liverpool in 1866 at the moment.I have got up to page 40 and still haven't found the relevant page number! Thanks again.

[craft1948]

As an outside chance could this be Thomas with his name spelt incorrectly.
Thomas Whitthall married Mary Grundy in Wigan 1870 Q4 8c 125
I cannot find Thomas Whitthall in the censuses so wondered if it was an error....having said that he could really be Thomas Whittle.
I've been through the marriage registers for England from 1870 to 1873 when Ellen was born and I can't find the marriage under Whitter either.
Good Luck

[craft1948]

Sorry didn't realise you were doing that......a Thomas Whitter married Annie Christian in Liverpool 1866...

[dothawkes31]

If you just order the certificate for either one of their children you;'ll have her maiden name. They are in Standish Lower Ground on the 1881 census and I have checked St Wilfreds Standish for their marriage and it wasn't there, Standish Lower Ground is actually quite a way from St Wilfreds, nearer to Shevington, i wonder if Mary's parish at the time she married was that way, as Thomas was from pemberton, which is only just up from Standish lower Ground. I can see no reason Thomas would marry in Liverpool when they were both from Wigan.

[craft1948]

Actually having looked at the 1871 census if Thomas is a coal miner and son of William and Mary it can't be his marriage in 1866 or 1870 'cos he's shown as unmarried on the census......

[craft1948]

I've just found Thomas in the 1911 census..........it shows he'd been married 36 years so he must have married about 1875.
In 1911......
Thomas is aged 61 and is a Stationary Fireman Above Ground
Mary is aged 60
Children at home and all single......
William aged 37.......Labourer underground
Thomas aged 31............coal hewer
Joseph aged 27..................miner drawer
Elizabeth aged 21..........
They are living at 91 Standish Lower Ground, Near Wigan

[dothawkes31]

i woulkd look for a mary turner marrying Thomas about 1975, the boarder living with them in 1881 is James Turner, where is he on the earlier returns I wonder? boarders are usually family as they shared the family table, lodgers didn;t. Try to find him on the earlier returns to see if he has a daughter mary living with him in 1871 and 1861

[dothawkes31]

a shot in the dark would be James Turner marrying Mary Barton at Wigan parish in 1837, cos Barton is an incredibly common name in Pemberton AND Standish Lower Ground.

[craft1948]

Can't find James Turner having children............can't find a Mary Turner marrying in Wigan in 1875 anyone with a name similar to Thomas Whitter.

[Polly1958]

I think i've found her! Mary Ann Pritchard married Thomas Whitter in Liverpool in 1866,it would make him only 17 and Mary only 16 when they married.Thomas my G,G Grandfather was born in1849 and lived in Smallshaws houses and was a miner(1881 census),My G Grandfather was Thomas also b 1876 m Annie Tait in 1896. The 1901 Census shows the family living at 2 Potter Square,he was also down the mine as a lampman and their son Samuel b 1900 was my mothers father.On my original post i had my generation wrong,easy to go brain dead doing this!Thanks for all answers,polly

[Polly1958]

Craft you are right,he is still at home in 1871.i must have the wrong one.Back to the drawing board.

[dothawkes31]

there is a mary ann pritchard baptised at Liverpool St peter in 1849, but not one born Wigan.
On the marriage entry for 1866, if they were underage, they would have had to marry with parents consent, but if they eloped to Liverpool to marry, they could have given false ages. it would mean checking the certificate.
But, looking at the family on the 1881 censusm there are no children aged over 8 in 1881, that means if the marriage in liverpool is them, they waited 6 or 7 years to have children, unless there is another older child not living with them in 1881, why would they need to elope? Or get married away from Wigan?

[dothawkes31]

craft could you please look at that 1911 again and see how many children in total they had in their marriage just to see if they lost some children early on.,

[craft1948]

where would it show that dot?....I'm looking at the census now but can't see that detail.

[craft1948]

I'm stuck....I've done a serach for all Whitters who married in Lancashire in 1875 and the only one that comes up is James who married Mary Ann Gore in Wigan in 1875.
I'm getting annoyed now so have posted a 'Help' on Genes Reunited........