Dot and Craft

[caslass]

You are both stars. I have read and reread all your posts. Today I tried to find the details of Alice Burns born in Castleford in1872. I tried the census of 1881 and 91. She married in1892 a German national named Hermann Essler, but you know this you gave me the information, but I cannot find her on the census. A few maybe's but no definite's. Help would be appreciated.

[dothawkes31]

Her brother George Allen was born in Castleford, Alice was born in Brighouse accop0rding to the 1881 but craft has found her birth registered at pontefract. was her father George Allen Burns born Brampton and her mother Susannah born Lockwood? If this is the right one they were in Doncaster in 1881, he father was a police Inspector..

RG11 468 42 / 23 Mexborough village.

Oh actually, when you look at the original return as written, Alice's place of birth has been crossed out and Castleford hand written above it.

[dothawkes31]

In 1891 she is living with Herman essler in 3 Cross Street Castleford as his wife.
RG12 3763 161/40. Herman is a glass blower born Prussia as previosuly said, it clearly says they were recorded as married.

[dothawkes31]

Actually Craft found the marriage in 1890 for you on the earlier thread. I went by your date in this question, sorry.

[caslass]

Dot I'm sorry about the the error in I gave in the year Annie got married. I know she married in 1890. I must have looked at the wrong piece of paper. Again please accept my apologies. Cas

[craft1948]

I think this is Alice's family but may be wrong....you really need to get her marriage certificate to check her father's name and occupation.
Of the people shown below Thomas, Michael, and William, were employed in the glass blowing industry which could be how Hermann met the family.
Thomas Burns born 1825 Swineford, Ireland married 1847 Sheffield
Catherine Teresa Arnold born 1827 Swineford, Ireland
Children
William born 1851 Selby
Sarah born 1852 Selby
Michael born 1853 Selby
Mary born 1855 Selby
Catherine born 1860 Middlesbrough
Luke born 1862 Dewsbury
Annie born 1865 Dewsbury
Alice born 1872 Castleford
In 1901 Thomas is a widower living in Selby Workhouse
In 1891 Michael is still living with parents in Castleford, but birth date has changed to 1858
In 1911 there is a Michael Burns born 1859, but in Castleford, lodging with Hermann and Alice.
This may be totally wrong but without Alice's marriage certificate is the best guesstimate I can come up with.......

[dothawkes31]

With 2 different Alice Burns , both showing as born Castleford approx 1872, yes you'll need probably the marriage certificate to get her father and his occupation, but working back from the 1911 and with Michael Burns being with Herman and Alice then, and the variation in his birth dates on the census, then the glass blowing connection, i would say that Craft's family are the more likely one.
But I couldn't find them on the 1881 on either Find My past or the LDS site, but found them using ancestry and realised why, they are in barrow in furness and i was restricting the search to Yorkshire. I found them fine on the 1871 and 1891.
The family must have moved back to Yorkshire before 1891 I guess

[dothawkes31]

Catherine aged 20 and Anne aged 16 are not living with Thomas and catherine but domestic servants for a beer retailer in the same road, Thomas and catherine are with Michael Luke and Alice, Thomas is a general labourer, it looks like they moved there to work on the docks.

[caslass]

If the one that craft posted is correct that means Alice's parents were 51 and 48 when she was born. That seems quite old to me.

[dothawkes31]

On the Find My Past transcription for the family in 1881, Alice's place of bith is transcribed as Lancashire and it quite clearly dittos Yorks on the original entry, so I have submitted an alteration to the error so hopefully that will me amended by the end of the day cas and you will be able to search for her easily. Flippin transcribers mess people about, I am fed up of having to submit endless corrections to the transcriptions, the originals are not that hard to read, yesterday I submitted a change to a name, they had transcribed Lydia as irwin! They not only got the name wrong they didn;t even bother to check the gender column!

[dothawkes31]

true cas but not unknown. there is only the older girl catherine and she would have been 11 when alice was born, unless there was another older girl but i haven't looked.

[dothawkes31]

Oh there was a daughter Sarah born 1852 in Idle, Yorkshire and a mary born 1855, either one of them could have been alice's mum too,

[craft1948]

I agree dot......48 is old but could have been what we now refer to as a menopause baby......but I wouldn't rule out either Sarah or Mary as being the mother either....

[dothawkes31]

In 1871 Sarah is still living at home but Mary aged 16 is a servant at a house in Wheldake, FerryFryston

[dothawkes31]

Find My Past used to give you search credits a few years ago if you reported any transcription errors and they were altered, bet they soon realised they were losing alot of revenue, cos there are just so many lazy and careless transcriptions it's ridiculous

[caslass]

Dot, could that Wheldake be Wheldale. The reason I ask is when I have been reading documents on free BMD's I have noticed lots of different spellings. I do know that Wheldale did exist. I have never heard of Wheldake.

[craft1948]

Wheldrake is between York and Selby cas,,,,,,,,,,,

[craft1948]

my niece lives there......

[craft1948]

I agree that yours should be Wheldale as there used to be Wheldale and Fryston colliery....

[caslass]

Craft the thing is. In Castleford there were two pits about 1 mile apart. One was called wheldale and the other ferry fryston. Dot did mention ferry fryston in her last post.

[craft1948]

I've checked on the original 1871 census and Mary is a servant to Samuel Ingram in Wheldale,