Get rid of Northern Ireland!

[Seabedsurfer]

Why has Westminster not got rid of Northern Ireland years ago other than perhaps it wasn't God's Will. I mean Northern Ireland is insignificant (economically speaking-I'm not at all suggesting the people don't have lots of value!) with about 1%- 2% of the UK's GDP but it has cost a fortune in military expenditure and political energies and a lot of British people are indifferent towards or very ignorant of the situation there. So why hasn't Westminster just said, especially with 40% of the NI people wanting a United Ireland, fine, go ahead, we'll take you out of the UK?      

 

 

 

 

[Octavius]

From your question and random facts and figures, it would suggest that 60% do NOT want a united Ireland.

And do you really think that the Republic of Ireland want that kind of economic drain?

[Loosehead]

It's for the 60% who want to stay British. Generally the UK has defended the rights of it's people to self determination, thats why we went to the southern oceans 23 years ago for a load of sheep and a couple of hundred people. Thats why we hang on to Gibraltar. The economics doesn't come into it.

Ok before all you anti British lefties jump on me I know there are examples where that hasn't happenned ok!

[jno]

The Falklands war was so expensive it would have been cheaper to give every islander �1 million, so economics as such isn't the issue. Self-determination may not explain it either, though - I believe most Hong Kong citizens would have preferred to stay British even though Britain gave them minimal rights; but Britain is weaker than China, so we didn't make any claims on moral grounds, unlike the Falklands and Gibraltar. We could certainly hand NI over in the same way, but I suspect that after 800 years or so of British occupation this would mean a great loss of face, and that's as shameful to Westminster as it is to Beijing.

[Seabedsurfer]

Thanks for your insightful answer guys

[Loosehead]

jno, you're right about the relative strengths over Hong Kong and I'm not suggesting for a minute that we should have fought over it but Hong Kong is different. It was leased for 99 years from the landlords much like a flat, when it expired there was no possible legal route even if we wanted to keep it.

[VINNY100_2]

Dont forget that A lot of people from N.I came originally from the uk,scots northerners etc and they have been loyal to the crown and over the years have fought with the British army against the hitlers of this world to give us the freedom we all take for granted!!

[jno]

agreed, loosehead, there are different details for each place (the Falklands were deemed militarily important) - but it's just a matter of which ones we choose to emphasise on each occasion. Nothing to stop us saying, 'Okay we're going to give up NI in 20 years, so people have plenty of time to stay or go as they choose'... but we won't.

[KebabMeister]

The loyalist people of NI are perhaps more patriotic than the average British mainland person.  Those that want to remain part of the UK have the right to do so and we are all obliged to honour that.  United we stand, devided we fall...

[THECORBYLOON]

Seabedsurfer you ask "Why has Westminster not got rid of Northern Ireland years ago....?" You have it  the wrong way round. Under legislation, Ulster will remain a part of the UK as long as the majority in Ulster wish it (subject to a vote in Ulster if ordered by the Sec. of State for N.I) .

These Ulster folk you want rid of, fought in two World Wars for YOUR country Seabedsurfer. They died defending YOUR country Seabedsurfer 

You maybe think it's no big deal to be British but thousands of Ulster folk have been murdered and maimed because they are proud to be British.  With the attitude of folk like you, God knows why.   

[bernardo]

I think it might be something to do with the fact that 40% is less than 50%.

[flaming]

Talk about a rock and a hard place. We English will never be right.  The first and last colony - and however one looks at, it IS a colony.  The partition didn't work.  There was a time when Westminster  thought it had worked, but discontent was bubbling away until the 'new' troubles started.  Indeed,  fear of loss of face by successive Governments here avoided doing anything;  the ensuing  violence on both sides must have been intolerable for ordinary people, again on both sides, with the intimidation and fear causing untold misery.  If  only the talking had started before hearts had hardened, with the passing on of hatred - and guns - to the next generation, and the next.....  The entrenchment is so deep now, even with the opportunities during the last few years there is a 'back to square one' feeling.  It would be interesting to know how many people feel intimidated to the point that they dare not reveal their true feelings - on both sides of the border.  Also I should like to know to what extent any people living in N.I. feel that a true partition at the time would have been helpful.  What Westminster  could have said in 1972 is that by the millenium Ireland will be united.  Young people growing up would have known nothing else.  The World Wars were behind us.  Anyone really attached to Mother England could then have settled back here with a generous resettlement  sum. Not an easy thing now  - although Scotland is desperate for people - even if people want to.  The mass influx of Europeans and the EU itself are the things that might help.  

[jno]

It has to be said that, given the chance to express their choice, Ulstermen go for the hardliners. In this week's elections, Paisley and Adams are in, Trimble is out. This can only perpetuate conflict. That, it seems to me, is one good reason why Westminster should cut them off (and yes, I'm well aware of English/British responsibility for getting them into this position in the first place), regardless of their wartime record and what happened under Henry II, Cromwell, William III etc. Apart from some Kosovans nobody else in modern Europe seems so keen to relive their medieval antipathies every day... so I agree with Octavius that Dublin is unlikely to want them either.

[Octavius]

Ireland�s 600 year struggle for independence was finally achieved in 1921 when twenty-six counties proclaimed themselves the irish Free State, and six Northern counties chose to remain part of the United Kingdom.

Would the British like to remove all their troops? yes,  would they be willing to see N. Ireland joined to the Republic? sure.  The question is how do we get there from here? and the answer is that the people of N. Ireland have to decide for themselves what they want and come to the necessary peacefull agreement to facilitate it.

Unilateral withdrawal would hand the initiative to the worst local elements and saddle the Republic with the same problems (social, political and economical) the British have been struggling with since 1969.

As I said in the first instance, I doubt the Republic of Ireland want this burden and neither do the Protestants (of Ulster) want reunification and would argue that they have a distinct national identity that would be destroyed in a united Ireland.

There is no easy solution.

[Gef]

Why do some people insist on calling Northern Ireland "Ulster". They are not the same thing.

[badgerfish]

Some very clever individuals pointed out at the time of the Falklands that the British govenment had been reliably informed there was oil in them thar seabeds...so it would be worth a few million quid & some cannon fodder to go and secure them back. Guess what, I am reliably informed that recent surveys have found lots of the sticky black stuff down there and if oil prices keep going the way they are its going to be economical to drill for it. Soon we may also be re-opening some of the mines the same lovely Lady premier closed at a cost of miliions to the tax payer...ooooh I love it !!!