Crowns

[Scobalob]

When I joind the RAF back in the mid 60's I remember being told that should the present Queen pass on power to Charles all the cap badges and buttons would have to change because the King's Crown was different to the Queen's Crown.  This is evident if you look at the badges and buttons used by the forces during national service - I'm not an expert so don't have a go at me if there are.

The thing is that even now I'm forever seeing evidence of what I believe to be Kings Crowns being used instead of the King's Crown - the insignia on the English Cricket Test Team for one. 

So, the question is - is it correct to display the King's Crown when there is a Queen on the throne?

[Peter Pedant]

Oh, I see what you mean - there is a protocol office at the house of commons apparently and they might know.

I think the Kings Crown you are thinking of is the George VI - redesign, and I think it was redesigned in 1946 and became a fashion icon and is now being recycled. I think it is a bit like Victoria liking her early head on her stamps - machin head? - and not liking particulalry the one which shows like it was, with widow's weeds and a double chin.

You know Royal protocol is made up as they go along? Instant traditions like flying the flag at half mast for Diana...... 

[Octavius]

The Queen Victoria's crown 1837-1901. This isn't strictly Victoria's crown because it was used by most of the monarchs before her, but it is associated with her more than anybody else.  Its' proper name is St. Edward's crown.  The Hertfordshire Yeomanry and The Royal Canadian Regiment both still wear Victoria's crown on their buttons to this day.  The Royal Canadian Regiment is allowed to wear it as an honour for the services they gave in WW1.  On January 1, 1901 the Irish Guards were formed.  They all paraded wearing their badges and buttons with Victoria's crown on them.  Then on the 22nd of January she died, and they all had to be replaced.

The King's crown, 1901-1952, (R59).  Known to the Edwardian soldier as "Teddie's hat," it is the Imperial state crown that was made for Queen Victoria when she became Empress of India.  She did not like the St. Edward's crown and always found it too heavy to wear on state occasions.  After her death, the Kings were depicted wearing it on coins, etc., and it was used on buttons and badges, so it became known as the King's crown.

The Queen's crown, 1952 onwards.  Now we are back to St. Edward's Crown.

Every King or Queen has their own cypher, which is displayed on certain buttons and badges, notably the Royal Engineers.

The above + lots more here: http://www.worldcollectorsnet.com/magazine/issue20/iss20p2.html

[KebabMeister]

In RAF terms, the squadron crests were authorised in 1936 and carried the Kings crown.  Since Elizabeth was crowned Queen they changed to the Queen's crown (better details by previous posts).

You can see the difference in crests here:

Queens http://www.raf.mod.uk/squadrons/h_images/3sqncrst.gif

Kings http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/h_images/92sqncrst.gif

I've always believed that if Charles became King then they'd revert back to the King's crown on everything that carrys the Crown (includinig badges, buttons, logos etc).

[THECORBYLOON]

I seem to recall reading that when they decided to make the logo of the England Test team part of a commercial venture, they had to re-design the crown to stay within the law. Something to do wi making a profit out of the Crown or the like. It might be a coronet now rather than a crown.....

[sinbag]

Did not recieve a welcome E mail when i changed my user name to sinbag,.  and my E mail address  from my real name. I think the confustion acurred by my changing my E mail address,  sorry!

[Scobalob]

Thank you to you all for your input - I can see from the links that more research is required.

Thanks again.

[peter210360]

Ops = military activity
OS for outsize (huge) P for power