Why Does The Beaufort Estate Own So Much Land

[yansee]

Swansea city council have paid large amounts of money to the Duke of Beaufort estate for building on land said to be owned by him including the bed of the river Tawe,how can this be correct in the 21st century when these lands are nothing to to do with him & were probably stolen hundreds of years ago ?

[woofgang]

So who would you give the land to and where would you stop in redistributing ownership?

[factor-fiction]

Are you suggesting the state/council should steal it on the grounds that his ancestors probably stole some or all of it? I'm not sure where we'd draw the line- would we take land from smaller landowners too?

[boxtops]

The lands were far more likely to have been given to him by a past King in return for some Dukely favour in war - that's what happened in the Early and Middle Ages. Do me a big favour and I'll give you a swathe of land for your estate. The Duchy of Cornwall owns a lot of stuff which is nowhere near Cornwall.

[factor-fiction]

Sorry woofgang- don't know why it took me so long to type that

[andy-hughes]

As boxtops advises, a lot of land was given out by past kings in return for financial or court support.

For instance, one of the original Dukes Of Westminster was given a load of useless boggy and marshy land outside the original London city walls.

Fortuantely for the current Duke, that turned into Mayfair and Belgravia!

[jno]

and the Duke of Westminster owns great chunks of the West End in London - a lot of it was fields when his family acquired it but London has expanded over it.

At the time, the bed of the Tawe might have seemed a better deal than a barn somewhere north of Charing Cross, but who knew?

[jno]

whoops, andy wasn't there when I started!

[yansee]

These ancient laws and gifts have no place in this day and age,i don`t know the answer but there must be a better way than filling these greedy over privileged twits bank balances with out council tax

[boxtops]

All land is owned by somebody, yansee - the area where I live is Crown property, so in theory the Queen's responsible for our drains....

[Old_Geezer]

I would suggest any land given to or by the crown has been stolen from the people by those with might and power, and should be returned to them. It becomes a little more difficult to unravel where land has been bought & sold a number of ties on route, but it can not be beyond the wit of mankind to agree a fair return of such ill gotten gains and receiving of stolen goods.

Failing that it's a case of awaiting the revolution and the putting of the elites against the wall.

[Old_Geezer]

"number of times"
like I typed !

[woofgang]

OG, before it was gifted by the King, mostly it was either owned by the king or owned by other nobles who had lost the battle or otherwise peeved the sovereign.
so basically it was stolen from other people slightly less mighty and powerful....who stole it from people who were on the wrong side at the time....who stole it from people who were on the wrong side at the time...and so on ad infinitum.

[woofgang]

yansee, I bet you wouldn't be saying that of you were on the landowning side lol

[ToraToraTora]

property is theft! they tried that in 1917! to be fair it lasted 72 years before they gave it all to 3 Oligarchs! nice touch!

[atalanta]

In many cases, in mediaeval times, land married land. A woman who was to inherit large estates would be matched by her parents to a man with large estates, to ensure that the grandchildren were well provided for. Inequality of property ownership in a marriage was most unlikely among the upper classes. And, remember, land meant titles, and titles meant that their owners were in the House of Lords which in mediaeval times was Parliament and wielder of power, before the Commons took over.

[craft1948]

So if your parents had managed, by whatever means, to accrue a large amount of land, would you be happy for the state to take it from you?

[FredPuli43]

Stolen from whom, yansee ?

The state does its best to deprive the next generation of its parents' property by taxing it at 40 per cent on inheritance, for any over the tax free threshold.

But farm land actively farmed by the deceased passes tax free as does any house, however grand, which is seen as the farmhouse for tax purposes. It may be that the Duke and his predecessor had that happy position. Would you like it to be taxed ? Before you say that you would, remember the same rule applies to any business, however large, which the family owns. Would you make factories taxable at 40 per cent?

[yansee]

Hmm,seem to be a lot of supporters of the robber barons on here,and those who asked if the shoe was on my foot i`d say if i was as as wealthy as Beaufort i definitely would not charge £280,000 for abridge to be built across a river i have nothing to do with,shows the greed of the aristocracy

[FredPuli43]

yansee, do you not think that any owner of land, any farmer, however modest their holding, be it few acres or hundreds, would not try to get £280,000 for the bridge? How does this indicate the 'greed of the aristocracy' or 'the robber barons' ? It's just business.

And you still haven't specified who the land was 'stolen' from.

[yansee]

i`m talking about a river bed that flows through the the city,how can an English / French baron lay claims to ownership of it