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More Proof That We're All Migrants Whether We Like It Or Not!
There's been lots of debate in 2015 about Europe being swamped by migrants. Evidence is now backing up hypotheses that mass migration has been a regular, formative event.
Coming over here, bringing their farming and their bronze...... Media URL: http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/winter-2015-2016/article/scientists-sequence-first-ancient-irish-human-genomes
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Coming over here, bringing their farming and their bronze...... Media URL: http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/winter-2015-2016/article/scientists-sequence-first-ancient-irish-human-genomes
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There are many sides to this subject when it comes to discussing the current crisis, the way it is focussed on western Europe and reaction to it in these countries. I am not convinced that land mass or population density has much to do with any nation's ability to accept rising numbers of migrants in serious need of somewhere to stay. What does matter an awful lot...
14:52 Tue 29th Dec 2015
Nobody would deny that many (or most) of us are descended from immigrants (Danes, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jews, Huguenots etc).
However in the past it has been measured in the hundreds or low thousands a year.
But in the last YEAR net migration in to the UK (up to March 2015) was 330,000 (net migration is the number that came in minus the number that went out).
So that is 330,000 EXTRA people in one year, a third the population of Birmingham.
If that continued for 3 years you would have 1 MILLION extra people, about the population of Birmingham.
And those 1 million need to be housed (driving up house prices), treated for illness (causing longer NHS queues), some of them educated (filling up schools), and looked after (putting up the benefits bill).
Most of those coming here have not put IN to the system (financially), but will begin to take OUT of the system as soon as they are here.
As a country we cant take that level of immigration, it puts too much strain on the whole system and infrastructure.
THAT is why people are so against immigration at the moment.
It is the NUMBER of immigrants that is the problem and it seems to be getting worse.
However in the past it has been measured in the hundreds or low thousands a year.
But in the last YEAR net migration in to the UK (up to March 2015) was 330,000 (net migration is the number that came in minus the number that went out).
So that is 330,000 EXTRA people in one year, a third the population of Birmingham.
If that continued for 3 years you would have 1 MILLION extra people, about the population of Birmingham.
And those 1 million need to be housed (driving up house prices), treated for illness (causing longer NHS queues), some of them educated (filling up schools), and looked after (putting up the benefits bill).
Most of those coming here have not put IN to the system (financially), but will begin to take OUT of the system as soon as they are here.
As a country we cant take that level of immigration, it puts too much strain on the whole system and infrastructure.
THAT is why people are so against immigration at the moment.
It is the NUMBER of immigrants that is the problem and it seems to be getting worse.
Naomi - the subtext of many posts this year has been xenophobic, boiling down to a simplistic stance of brown foreigner bad, white christian good. So whether the most zealous racist likes it or not, their (and our) genetic inheritance owes a great deal to mass migrations in the past, and at the moment the two identified large-scale events originated in the area of the upper reaches of the Tigris-Euphrates (now Northern Syria and Kurdish Iraq), followed later by the Pontic Steppe - let's say eastern Bulgaria to eastern Ukraine.
Mosaic, You perceive sub-texts that in many instances don’t exist, so try looking at it another way. Could it be that the people you so freely accuse of xenophobia/racism are genuinely doubtful that our genetic inheritance – or any other sort of inheritance – will benefit from current or future mass migrations?
Zac, no, not Syrians, as Syria is a modern entity.
Some things have changed, some are perhaps oddly similar. You talk about current land space being 'full up', to summarise.
'Full up' is a relative concept - evidence suggests that in fact the first wave of mass migration, by early farmers, effectively used up landscapes leaving relatively poor land in their wake. The Neolithic landscapes were 'full up' in terms of resource availability. Life however eventually carried on, and here we all are now. So is it possible that our perception of no room in Europe is either misguided, and will change over time?
Douglas - what are sixth year studies?
Some things have changed, some are perhaps oddly similar. You talk about current land space being 'full up', to summarise.
'Full up' is a relative concept - evidence suggests that in fact the first wave of mass migration, by early farmers, effectively used up landscapes leaving relatively poor land in their wake. The Neolithic landscapes were 'full up' in terms of resource availability. Life however eventually carried on, and here we all are now. So is it possible that our perception of no room in Europe is either misguided, and will change over time?
Douglas - what are sixth year studies?
Naomi - if there's a certainty to be gained from studying the past, it's that everything changes. Nothing is static. So what is certain is that Europe will look and sound different. In some parts of Europe that's happening quite quickly now. And the people who represent that change are themselves not static communities - they too will change over time.
At the same time it's natural and human nature to bemoan outsiders and this can be seen in evidence left as soon as the written word emerged - let's say 2500 BCE -ish as a round figure.
Ironically technological advances were disseminated along the migration routes, so back to the start of the thread, mass migration in the past definitely brought positive changes. And conflict. And disease.
So....we live in interesting times. And we are all mongrels, probably be easier all round if we just got over that one.
At the same time it's natural and human nature to bemoan outsiders and this can be seen in evidence left as soon as the written word emerged - let's say 2500 BCE -ish as a round figure.
Ironically technological advances were disseminated along the migration routes, so back to the start of the thread, mass migration in the past definitely brought positive changes. And conflict. And disease.
So....we live in interesting times. And we are all mongrels, probably be easier all round if we just got over that one.
//our perception of no room in Europe is either misguided, and will change over time?//
we can of course concrete over more of the countryside to provide for those that some are misguidedly doubtful about. this will of course greatly reduce the land's ability to absorb the increasing amounts of precipitation caused in part by atmospheric warming, itself caused in part because there are too many humans consuming too many resources.
we can of course concrete over more of the countryside to provide for those that some are misguidedly doubtful about. this will of course greatly reduce the land's ability to absorb the increasing amounts of precipitation caused in part by atmospheric warming, itself caused in part because there are too many humans consuming too many resources.
Sorry about the bad link above, distracted again
This link should do better, insh'allah as we say in Lancashire
And here's the recent article:
http://
This link should do better, insh'allah as we say in Lancashire
And here's the recent article:
http://
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