Holocaust Denial ?

[mikey4444]

There is an interesting piece in the Observer today, about Google.

It said that if you type in " Did the holocaust happen ? " the top answer comes from a Neo-nazi website, so I tried it, and it did !

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t553062/

In fact, quite a few denial website feature on the first page.

Is it any wonder that the far and ultra-far right appear to be making inroads into our societies these days ?

It would be easy to just point out that most of these website are owned by uneducated and bigoted Americans, but in the age of the Global Village, this is very worrying indeed.

[Old_Geezer]

If they specifically concentrate on that question they will get a lot of traffic related to it, and thus reach the top of the web search. It bears no connection as to how valid the information there is. I suspect that is near inevitable so I'm not overly concerned about apparent ultra far right inroads.

[mikey4444]

My problem, shared with the Observer writer, is that Google are making money off the back of this sort of thing. In many countries, holocaust denial is a criminal offence, although not where Google is based.

It shouldn't be difficult for Google to ensure that searches such as mine turn up the truth on the first and subsequent pages. In addition, it would be the work of a moment for Google to issue a statement to the fact that the Holocaust DID happen. Its not rocket science.

There is widespread ignorance amongst the young, about some very, very basic truths concerning WW2. When a teenager says to you that he isn't terrible sure what country fought on what side from 1939 to 1945, (or 1941 to 1945 for Americans) then the belief in Holocaust denial can't be far behind.

The internet is now the first, and mostly, the only choice of research into historical subjects. Can we trust people to be able to work out what is the truth and what is far-right lies ?

[ummmm]

And how many teenagers have said that to you?

[vetuste_ennemi]

In your opinion which is the most numerous group which denies the holocaust, Mikey?

[Baldric]

Bit of a spat here

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Media-and-TV/Question1477434.html

[Gromit]

It is a silly argument.

Anyone researching the holocaust would not search "...did it happen?"
If you make the correct search in a search engine, you get the correct answer. If want want confirm a falsehood, you phrase your own search to modify the results.

Your generalisation of younger people is terribly inaccurate and patronising.

The conclusion of your doubt seems to be that you think the internet should be censorred. It shouldn't, and that route is very dangerous for truth.

[mikey4444]

VE....I am not sure of the answer to that question, but I am also not sure why it is important ?

Holocaust denial has been going on since shortly after the defeat of Germany, and I am guessing that it will continue to go on long after I am dead.

But my point is about Google. I have tried other search engines this morning, and the results were not dissimilar to Google. The only way that free search engines can make any money at all is by advertising.

[ladybirder]

They've chosen their words carefully. Just "The Holocaust brings up:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&;rls=en&q=the+holocaust&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=RWBNWOaDDqPS8Afr5LDwDQ

and "Holocaust Facts" brings up:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&;rls=en&q=holocaust+facts&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=VGFNWPysEoycgAaY3bqIBA

[TheChair]

//It shouldn't be difficult for Google to ensure that searches such as mine turn up the truth on the first and subsequent pages.//

That would be fine if Google's job was returning the truth, but it's not.

Google set out initially to create an index of the web. They then tried to make their results match the kind of results that the user was looking for. This is what an efficient index is about.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//VE....I am not sure of the answer to that question, but I am also not sure why it is important ? //

I do believe you're being coy with me, Mikey.

Its important if holocaust denying groups are dangerous (I do think that's a word you've used AND the reason you've "warned" us many times about the "inroads into our societies" by the far-right- is my memory faulty?). If they're not dangerous, then my question AND all your previous warnings are unimportant.

[mikey4444]

Of course the far right is dangerous VE !

And Holocaust denial is the most dangerous of all, because it becomes acceptable to lie about the holocaust, than we have learned nothing about our recent past.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Then you want fewer of them rather than more, Mikey. Therefore the more numerous a group the more dangerous it is. Therefore Front National more dangerous than Britain First. Therefore VE question about head count not irrelevant.

[EDDIE51]

If you type in 'did the holocaust happen' then it is pretty obvious that the denial sites will be near the top of the listings.
If you do as ladybirder says you get very different results.
Searching for 'did the holocaust happen' means you already have doubts.
I recently searched for 'Flat Earth proof' the top result was a laughable site '10 Undeniable Proofs the Earth is Flat' I was attempting to find what 'facts' flat Earthers could come up with ( try it the site is really so bad it is hilarious!)
If I really had wanted to know if the Earth is flat I would have searched for 'Is the Earth Flat'

[Orderlimit]

Out of interest, does this concern you mikey

Mr Corbyn admitted at the time attending “two or three” DYR events, but said: “Fifteen years ago, he [Eisen] was certainly not a Holocaust denier. Had he been a Holocaust denier, or stated he was, I’d have had absolutely nothing to do with him … At that time I had no evidence whatsoever that Paul Eisen was a Holocaust denier.”

However, Mr Corbyn attended a DYR event organised by Mr Eisen in St John’s Wood, London, on April 9 2013, by which time Mr Eisen had been an open Holocaust denier for at least eight years: in January 2008, he published an essay in which he stated that Holocaust “revisionists” are “amongst the bravest people on the planet”.

[Gromit]

Paul Eisen writes:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=64860

[Old_Geezer]

I don't believe that it is a search engine's role to be the arbiter of truth. It's there to search not censor. It is the user's responsibility to judge what they find. If a website is spreading lies then the authorities should take any illegality up with the website owner. Or even the site hosting company. At most a web search should provide user set filtering to aid parenting (and "protect" the squeamish).

[naomi24]

Mikey, //Can we trust people to be able to work out what is the truth and what is far-right lies ?//

Do you not recognise the irony in what you’re suggesting? The implications are frightening.

Regarding V_E’s question at 14:07 Sun, Google will help – but you won’t like the answer.

[Peter Pedant]

.// And how many teenagers have said that to you?//

Quite a few I think ummm
that organ of truth the Daily Mail carried this in 2012 about the igorance of young people - Battle of Waterloo being in the Great War stuck in my mind

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227643/Two-thirds-young-people-dont-know-First-World-War-ended.html

I met a table full of youngsters who were all unaware the British were in India for 200 y ( clearly all white )

[Peter Pedant]

// I don't believe that it is a search engine's role to be the arbiter of truth. It's there to search not censor.//

yup quite right old G and so quality or lack of it on the internet is an issue

Johns Hopkins ( famous stateside hospital ) had a famous spat which I cant find on the internet (!) when they found one of its techies was running an alternative web site with a JH label saying that the best treatment for childhood Leukaemia was herbal grass tea. [it isnt]
They got their knickers in a twist over freedom of speech needless to say