Union Flag

[information]

why is th the Union (Jack) Flag flown a certain way up - wider left hand stripe upermost?

[WaldoMcFroog]

For the same reason the US flag is flown with the stars in the top left; that's the way it goes... ;-)

[AHApartridge]

because when the romans occupied britain they enforced flying the flag a certain way, failure to do this would result in public beatings.

[Grunty]

Hasn't the design changed a bit since Roman times?

It is an artificially concocted flag; for example neither the Irish nor anyone else had seen St Patrick's Cross before the Union Jack arrived. There seems no logical reason for the red cross to be offset on the white ground. I suspect that the educated people did it for the sake of having a rule that the poor people would not understand, thus making them feel superior.

[kempie]

The current Union Flag dates from 1st January 1801 with the Act of Union 1800, which merged the Kingdom of Ireland and the Kingdom of Great Britain to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

The new design added the red saltire cross attributed to St Patrick for Ireland. This saltire is overlaid on the saltire of St Andrew, but beneath the cross of St George.

To make it clear Ireland was not superior to Scotland, the Irish cross was placed off-centre and made thinner.

The exact origin of the red saltire cross is unknown but is thought to have come from the heraldic device of the Fitzgerald family who were sent by Henry II of England to aid Anglo-Norman rule in Ireland and has rarely been used as an emblem of Ireland by the Irish.

[SteveD]

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/geogra phy/unionjack7.html

[Narolines]

May I congratulate you on a) knowing there is a right way up, b) knowing wich way up that is and c) calling it by its correct name of the Union Flag. If only 95% of the population knew as much..........:-)

[Narolines]

Why do I only ever see typos just after I've hit "Submit"?

[Grunty]

Narolines - if you wish to know why the correct name is the Union Jack and not the rather insulting 'union flag', you might be interested in an article published in Navy News, October 1998, and a follow-up letter in November 1998. I am not sure whether it is still available, but unfortunately it is a little too long to reproduce here, even if I had the editor's permission.

[jno]

summarise, Grunty, summarise!

[saxy_jag]

Grunty, it's the Union Flag. Technically it's only the Union Jack when flown from the jack stay of a sailing ship, which is how it gets its name.

[Narolines]

In what way is "union flag" insulting? Insulting to whom?

[saxy_jag]

It doesn't insult me to hear it called that, because I only found out very recently about the flag/jack thing (always thought 'Jack' was just a nickname).

It's disappointing, rather than insulting, to see it flown upside down, especially by people who call themselves Brits.

[information]

Narolines,
Many thanks, nice to see there are like minded people out there. Typos, they happen to the best of us!

[kempie]

Discourse on the usage of the name "Union Jack".

Be aware that the US Navy also has a "Union Jack".

[jno]

a Union Jacobus, yeah, right. Nonetheless, I suspect its use off ships is now sanctified by long usage.

[information]

SteveD,
Thank you so much. This is exactly what I was looking for !

[Narolines]

H'mm...I can't help feeling that the "Union Jacobus" (surely that should be "Union Jacobi", shouldn't it?) is something of a red herring. I wouldn't disagree that the flag in question has been called the Union Jack in common parlance for quite some time, and most British residents know what is meant by the term; however, the fact that it is acceptable doesn not make it strictly "correct". People say "pence" when they mean "penny" (as in "two pounds one pence") - their meaning may be clear, but it's still not the correct terminology. We pedants have to stick together, you know!

[jno]

well, it's like talking about a dilapidated wooden house... or saying agenda should be plural, like data... sometimes pedantry is useful, and sometimes it just attracts the attention of the men in white coats

[Grunty]

OK. A summary to the best of my ability from the words of Commander Bruce Nicolls. Sorry about the delay; I have been trying unsuccessfully to post this reply since Sunday morning.

There are some who claim the name Union Jack should only be used when the flag is flying from the bows of HM ships, but this is a modern view, not supported by the historical facts. When the British flag was introduced in 1606 for use at sea, it was flown from the main masthead, but by 1627 it had become the custom to fly a smaller version of the national flag from the mast on the bowsprit. Then, the word jack could mean small, as it still can today, and the smaller flag was called a jack. That does not preclude the word jack being used otherwise than to mean small. Although the flag has never been adopted as the national flag, it became used as such and the name Union Jack was given in Royal Proclamations and Admiralty Instructions. In 1902, after the design of the flag had been formalised, the Admiralty approved the general use of the term Union Jack. Parliament said in 1908 that �the Union Jack should be regarded as the national flag, and it may undoubtedly be flown on land by all His Majesty� subjects.�

I accept that disrespectful would have been a better word than insulting. The Union Jack has been proudly used by many people and has acquired its much respected name through four centuries of usage, which began earlier than the flags known as jacks. It really does not deserve to be demoted to just another flag.

Buckingham Palace say the name could come from the jacket worn by soldiers of the period, or from Jacobus or Jacques, referring to James I. These explanations may be doubtful, but they at least cast doubt on the modern view that the national emblem is a little flag flown on the bows of a ship.

[jno]

thanks, Grunty