holocaust

[bringitback]

was there such a thing as a holocaust....did hitler even know wot was going on with generals such as hess.himmler,

[brachiopod]

Are you taking the p***?

[jno]

The short answer is yes, there was a holocaust. The exact number of Jews killed will never be known (and non-Jews were killed as well - gypsies, for instance) but 6 million is the widely accepted figure. For what it actually meant, you can visit Auschwitz in modern Poland, near Krakow. As for Hitler not knowing what was going on - he was the leader of a totalitarian state; the idea that millions of people vanished without his noticing is preposterous.

Some Germans (and others - neo-Nazis, for example) would prefer not to know about this, and deny it happened. The Guardian this week ran a feature on a German who got sick of hearing people denying the holocaust happened, and pointed out that it had happened, and he knew about it because he had worked at Auschwitz. If eye-witness testimony will help answer your question, see www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1386434,00.html

Has anything changed? Anti-semitism is now widely reviled. But it's still okay to hate gypsies. it seems.

[El D]

this stems from the infamous 'fuhrer order' - did Hitler actually order the extermination or was it implied and his staff took it upon themselves. We will never know - that is history. However given Hitlers hatred of teh Jews, his rhetoric about Lebensraum and his plans for a master race, it is unlikey he would not have had a hand in the holocaust. Although Nazi Germany ran along somewhat chaotic lines at the end of teh day Hitler was a fascist dictator and I would imagine knew an awful lot about what was going on even if others postulate it was out of his control.

[Philtaz]

I've been to Dachau and Bergen-Belsen and am in no doubt that there was indeed a Holocaust, ordered by Hitler himself and carried out to the letter by his Generals.

[Skids]

HELLO!!!???

Are you from our planet...the final solution meetings would have been attended by Hitler.

[smudge]

In addition to In A Pickle's post - not forgetting the innocent Disabled & Mentally ill children & adults.

[jno]

It was Hitler's father, not Hitler himself, who was illegitimate and was known briefly as Schicklegruber or Schicklgruber; see www.holocaust-trc.org/wmp07.htm

Moe holocaust evidence in the Guardian this morning, I see:  www.guardian.co.uk/secondworldwar/story/0,14058,1389351,00.html

[Yeah Bee]

Of course were would 6 million Jews plus others have gone?

[Octavius]

Incidentally:

27 January 2005 is Holocaust Memorial Day
2005 Theme: Survivors, Liberation and Rebuilding Lives

The 60th anniversary of the liberation of the extermination and concentration camps presents one of the greatest opportunities to show our respect for the survivors of Nazi persecution and mass murder, and to listen to what they can tell us about the best and the worst of human behaviour. See here:

http://www.holocaustmemorialday.gov.uk/

[LordyGeordie]

For the same reasons that are given here I am sure Hitler knew the full extent of the Holocaust and excactly what was going on. However, with reference to Skids post, all historical evidence of the meetings about the Final Solution suggests Hitler was not present at any of them. He is not listed in minutes as being present nor of having said anything. However, I do not doubt he was privately briefed by Himmler or someone on the outcome of the meetings

[Sludge]

Below are a few books amongst which I hope that you will find something of interest:-

The Other Nuremberg   A. C. Brackman      Collins

Nuremberg     A. Neave            Hodder & Stoughton

Nuremberg  Infamy on Trial  J. Persico  Allison & Busby

The Nuremberg Trial      A & J Tusa      Macmillan

Justice at Nuremberg  R Conot  Weidenfeld & Nicolson

Hitler 1889 - 1936: Hubris   I.Kershaw   Penguin Press

Hitler 1936 - 1945: Nemesis I Kershaw PenguinPress

The Belsen Trial edited by R. Phillips   William Hodge -

The Relief of Belsen, April 1945: Eye Witness Accounts by P. Kemp      Imperial War Museum

The Buchenwald Report translated & edited by D. A. Hackett     Westview

The Nazi Persecution of the Gypsies   G. Levy   Oxford University Press

Bravest of the Brave  Mark Seaman   O'Mara Books

                                       
The World at War          M. Forster       Pimlico

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich    W.  Shirer      Book Club Associates

For Fuhrer and Fatherland  R. De Normann     Wrens Park 

[Yinzer]

If there was no holocaust then where did my husband's grandmother get that tatoo on her arm?