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Just been watching a short documentry about WW2, in it was made the statement that the Wehrmacht forced Polish women to work in their brothels, I've never heard of this before, what's the evidence?
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Ruth Seifert worked on the subject before her untimely death
http://www.wilpf.int....s/1992ruthseifert.htm
http://www.wilpf.int....s/1992ruthseifert.htm
Thanks Dot, I haven't the time to read the link just yet, but, I'm interested in the specifics of this with regard to Poland or for that matter the occupied German territories.
War and rape sadly go together like peaches and cream, all nations are guilty of it, I'm aware of the Japanese doing this and I'm aware of the Germans doing it in Auschwitz for the inmates, but never their soldiers, I've never come across it and I don't know why.
War and rape sadly go together like peaches and cream, all nations are guilty of it, I'm aware of the Japanese doing this and I'm aware of the Germans doing it in Auschwitz for the inmates, but never their soldiers, I've never come across it and I don't know why.
Went to Auschwitz last year, the brothel was for the use of the SS and selected prisoners, and included German, Polish and Czech women.
After I read your post I was uncertain in my mind about the brothels, the visit was pretty harrowing, but double checked on a couple of websites.
I'll be interested to see Mr V's full answer tomorrow.
After I read your post I was uncertain in my mind about the brothels, the visit was pretty harrowing, but double checked on a couple of websites.
I'll be interested to see Mr V's full answer tomorrow.
I can only answer this question on two counts I wasn't in Poland during the war.
I was in Germany,so may be able to add some facts about this which may(or may not) be similar to Poland.
When we arrived in Germany,we found a brothel (usually) in each town,however these were run by German madams and were for the German Military and Non~Military population,but were obviously not staffed by "forced" girls.
As slinky cat says there WERE "forced" brothels in the Concentration Camps,these were staffed by inmates(predominantly Jews,but not exclusively)It seems it gave German soldiers,both Military and SS etc a "kick" to be(in effect) raping a Jewess!(my wife's dead cousin was one)
As I was attached to SOE,we often got classified information,that was for one reason or another,not seen fit to divulge to the world at large.(Then or later)I couldn't have told you this 25 years ago.(Now it is de~classified)
One of these files was data on "forced" brothels set up the German Military in occupied countries.As I say I was never in Poland,but it did come into a file that I had seen,regarding such brothel setups.
As will be obvious as Germany was occupying Poland most "normal" brothels closed down.So the senior members of the German forces took over various large houses (in effect Polish Castle,Chateaus etc) and rounded up scores of (good looking/pretty) Polish girls to service the German soldiers.This is why the castles/chateaus had to be in the middle of nowhere,as it prevented the girls from running away.Don't imagine tha these brothels were for the ordinary soldiers.Oh no,you had to be officer rank and upwards to take advantage of them.Despite being in what were(usually) luxurious surrundings,the girls were kept under close guard in prison like accomodation.I haven't seen evidence of a "lower level" of forced brothels for the ordinary troops,but that doesn't mean they weren't there.
I was in Germany,so may be able to add some facts about this which may(or may not) be similar to Poland.
When we arrived in Germany,we found a brothel (usually) in each town,however these were run by German madams and were for the German Military and Non~Military population,but were obviously not staffed by "forced" girls.
As slinky cat says there WERE "forced" brothels in the Concentration Camps,these were staffed by inmates(predominantly Jews,but not exclusively)It seems it gave German soldiers,both Military and SS etc a "kick" to be(in effect) raping a Jewess!(my wife's dead cousin was one)
As I was attached to SOE,we often got classified information,that was for one reason or another,not seen fit to divulge to the world at large.(Then or later)I couldn't have told you this 25 years ago.(Now it is de~classified)
One of these files was data on "forced" brothels set up the German Military in occupied countries.As I say I was never in Poland,but it did come into a file that I had seen,regarding such brothel setups.
As will be obvious as Germany was occupying Poland most "normal" brothels closed down.So the senior members of the German forces took over various large houses (in effect Polish Castle,Chateaus etc) and rounded up scores of (good looking/pretty) Polish girls to service the German soldiers.This is why the castles/chateaus had to be in the middle of nowhere,as it prevented the girls from running away.Don't imagine tha these brothels were for the ordinary soldiers.Oh no,you had to be officer rank and upwards to take advantage of them.Despite being in what were(usually) luxurious surrundings,the girls were kept under close guard in prison like accomodation.I haven't seen evidence of a "lower level" of forced brothels for the ordinary troops,but that doesn't mean they weren't there.
Part 2:~
Now for a (romantic?) twist in the tale.I know of at least 3 "forced" girls who ended up marrying officers that they served in the forced brothel.
Even there love found a way.Not all German Officers were either Nazi or Gestapo at heart,or in their actions.
BTW.In the Concentration Camp there was a gay brothel.Shock horror,some of the German officers were gay,and knew who the gay prisoners were by their Pink Triangle.
This was completely unofficial,as the Officers risked being shot as "perverted" if anyone found out,but it did go on.I don't know if any of the gays ended up together(like the girls/officers above) but it wouldn't surprise me!
If you want any further "de~classified" information LOL just post.
Now for a (romantic?) twist in the tale.I know of at least 3 "forced" girls who ended up marrying officers that they served in the forced brothel.
Even there love found a way.Not all German Officers were either Nazi or Gestapo at heart,or in their actions.
BTW.In the Concentration Camp there was a gay brothel.Shock horror,some of the German officers were gay,and knew who the gay prisoners were by their Pink Triangle.
This was completely unofficial,as the Officers risked being shot as "perverted" if anyone found out,but it did go on.I don't know if any of the gays ended up together(like the girls/officers above) but it wouldn't surprise me!
If you want any further "de~classified" information LOL just post.
Hunger unites us all, German policy in the east factored in starvation as an outcome of occupation.
I don't think any of us would feel right to make a judgement on anyone in these circumstances.
In Italy, Naples in particular, prostitution was rife (didn't Tommy Trinder crack a joke about it? Tommy "I want the harbour master", Italian "it's deefeecult, but I'll try!"), anything went in Naples.
The women of Germany upon occupation resorted to it also.
I don't think any of us would feel right to make a judgement on anyone in these circumstances.
In Italy, Naples in particular, prostitution was rife (didn't Tommy Trinder crack a joke about it? Tommy "I want the harbour master", Italian "it's deefeecult, but I'll try!"), anything went in Naples.
The women of Germany upon occupation resorted to it also.
PPS:~
You may not have come across this information before because,as I said,it was only de~classified about 25 years ago.
The SOE files,whilst open to the public are not easily accessed however (officials put up red tape,which you can get through but it's not easy)
When you do get the files much of it has been redacted(is that the right word?) in other words these are not the original documents but a condensed version,which may or may not contain all original data;but as you did not see the originals how would you know (unless it was a glaring omission) just what WAS missing?
You may not have come across this information before because,as I said,it was only de~classified about 25 years ago.
The SOE files,whilst open to the public are not easily accessed however (officials put up red tape,which you can get through but it's not easy)
When you do get the files much of it has been redacted(is that the right word?) in other words these are not the original documents but a condensed version,which may or may not contain all original data;but as you did not see the originals how would you know (unless it was a glaring omission) just what WAS missing?
BTW, Mr Veritas, did you ever read about Heydrich when he was alive?
He used to ring up his fellow S.S mates and say "shall we have a drink tonight, and then go on?" meaning bestial sex with prostitutes. Even S.S officers used to groan at the thought of going out with him, what must he have been like?
He once threatened a hotel manager with being sent to a concentration camp because he wouldn't accomodate his "lady", I think he said "have you heard of Maltheusen?"
Heydrich was the epitome of a pyscopath, he's almost a comic book villain when you read his character.
He used to ring up his fellow S.S mates and say "shall we have a drink tonight, and then go on?" meaning bestial sex with prostitutes. Even S.S officers used to groan at the thought of going out with him, what must he have been like?
He once threatened a hotel manager with being sent to a concentration camp because he wouldn't accomodate his "lady", I think he said "have you heard of Maltheusen?"
Heydrich was the epitome of a pyscopath, he's almost a comic book villain when you read his character.
Probably everton,
However in the Polish cases I am talking about,the officers certainly weren't hungry.
The women did it because they had no alternative(well only being shot),and they didn't get the food that the officers did,they got basic(very basic rations)
However,I do take your point on hunger.
However in the Polish cases I am talking about,the officers certainly weren't hungry.
The women did it because they had no alternative(well only being shot),and they didn't get the food that the officers did,they got basic(very basic rations)
However,I do take your point on hunger.
No, you're welcome, I'm glad of your contribution.
When I say comic book, he played the violin excellently, he was a skilled pilot, he was a skilled fencer, he was a skilled boxer, he was a ruthless killer, he was a sexual sadist, he was a loving father, he was a loving husband, so many contradictions.
When he was shot at (well almost) and blown up by Kubis and Gabcik, his words to his driver "get that b a s t a r d!" and I think he fired a couple of shots too.
Please don't make the mistake that I admire Heydrich (I don't) it's just the impression he gives when I've read about him.
Did you ever meet Kubis or anyone like that?
They were very brave men.
When I say comic book, he played the violin excellently, he was a skilled pilot, he was a skilled fencer, he was a skilled boxer, he was a ruthless killer, he was a sexual sadist, he was a loving father, he was a loving husband, so many contradictions.
When he was shot at (well almost) and blown up by Kubis and Gabcik, his words to his driver "get that b a s t a r d!" and I think he fired a couple of shots too.
Please don't make the mistake that I admire Heydrich (I don't) it's just the impression he gives when I've read about him.
Did you ever meet Kubis or anyone like that?
They were very brave men.
