Class Q And Curtilage - Agricultural Land

[funkylad20]

Hi all, we are buying a class q barn that has planning for conversion, but the curtilage around the barn means only a small patio area to the rear (our garden) and the same out the front (driveway). Does anyone have any experience of class q and/or planning permission to use some of the land from the 1 acre agricultural field that the barn sits on (we will own it all) so we can have a bigger garden and driveway? We don’t plan to use the field for agriculture; the additional fields around it that we are also buying will just be meadows cut annually for hay (so will retain as agricultural land).

[The Builder]

Using land classed as agricultural for domestic use comes under "Change of Use", so, technically, needs Planning Consent.

It sounds like a perfectly reasonable change in my opinion. Although there are rules laid down by law, Planning Departments tend to be in a world of their own regarding interpretation of the rules.

There's nothing for it but to draw up a sketch of what you propose, and show it to the relevant Planning Officer. You really are in their hands. Go for it. It makes a lot of sense what you propose.

[bednobs]

it makes me wonder why the seller didn't do it. are you able to look at previous applications to see if they tried and failed?

[funkylad20]

Hi, thanks for the answers, really appreicate it.
I would hope it is ocmmon sense, but just wary of planner who may just be stubborn for the sake of it.
The sellers just have Class Q conversion permission in place, no previous applications to extend the curtilage. I believe part of the Class Q conditions means that the outside space can only be the same size of the barn. As the barn is in a field, they have a line around it for said curtilage (to show parking and a small garden) but it is not big enough to even join the road.
Happy to take the risk and proceed if we have some sort of indication it is normal to allow that extended curtilage or change of use, but it might be too big a risk, we don't know! Planners we spoke too already took the standard line of sitting on the fence!

[bednobs]

you need to work out if you would be happy to live there still if it wasn't granted. If it's a dealbreaker for you, you'll need to back out

[AuntPollyGrey]

Hi. I've worked in Estate and Land agency for 25 years or more. As you know Q class allows a redundant agricultural building to be converted to a dwelling or dwellings with quite a few restrictions, one of them that the land allowed to be classed as 'Recreational' -that is your garden - cannot be more than the total ground floor square meterage. Some things you say don't add up. You must already have a 'driveway' which will have had to be agreed with the planning department for vehicular access to the main highway -oh I'm presuming it has vehicular access -if not walk away now -seriously...
….. As advised previously this is a matter to be taken back to the Planning office. If you (will) own the surrounding agricultural land you will have to apply to change the area you want as extra garden from Ag to Recreational -this is not easy. Just from experience I would hazard a guess that the sellers have been down this road with a negative outcome. Only actual planning applications are recorded against a property, not conversations between owners and officers -and believe me, if they could have got change of use they would before selling as the hike in value would be substantial. Is there a claw-back clause in the Contract? If so then perhaps they have not tried change of use but are hoping the new owners will get it and they will benefit from that. If there is no claw back attached then I'd proceed with extreme caution.

[Oxymoronic]

Hi, I was just wondering if you got hold of any more useful information to help you to come to a decision about buying the class q barn for conversion. We are looking at something similar, but the curtilage issue, along with the last answer you got are making us a bit jittery.

[funkylad20]

Hi Oxymoronic; unfortunately with a class Q the land that can be used for a ‘garden’ is very limited and can’t be any bigger than the size (footprint) of the barn itself. There isn’t really any way around that, you just have to accept it I think. What’s your situation then?