Planning Permission Mystery

[David H]

I finally got planning permission for my extended kitchen which is already half built, but although the decision is permission granted the details say it is too long as it exceeds the 3m permitted development by 0.9 metres. Firstly if they give permission which does not say conditional, how can they then put conditions in their small print and secondly it's not longer than 3m as they ignored the conservatory which is on the plans which was part of the original house and was replaced for the new kitchen. I will be speaking to the architect tomorrow but tend to prefer a wider view in case I miss anything.

[Buenchico]

It's taken me a while to get my head around that but here's how I read it:

Firstly, they've stated that if the extension didn't exceed three metres from the rear wall of the house it would be a 'permitted development' and therefore not require planning permission.
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/17/extensions

By the planning authority's way of measuring things though, they've calculated the measurement as 3.9m and therefore correctly stated that they recognise the need for planning approval.

However they've then gone on to grant such consent anyway.

So I can't see that any conditions have been imposed. All that you're reading is an explanation of the planning authority's way of working. (i.e. Step 1: Determine whether or not the proposal is actually a 'permitted development', which doesn't even need planning permission anyway. Step 2: Explain why planning consent is needed and then decide whether or not to grant it).

[David H]

I suspect I'm the first person this has happened to it wouldn't surprise me. The attached details mention demolition of it as it is too long, right after they've said it was approved.

Under administrative law (one of my areas) surely the decision outranks the added details, especially as it wasn't conditional in the headlines. Secondly the fact they ignored the existing conservatory, which is on the before plan means they didn't take a vital element into consideration. I don't see where they get off on this.

[bobbinwales]

I'm not sure why it was built before it was approved, isn't that asking for trouble. Councils don't like that and to many people try it on. The conservatory might not of needed PP but once it's replaced by a larger kitchen the whole thing becomes the extension. Best to ring and ask them to clarify what they want before you go too far and maybe have to demolish something.

[Atheist]

It would help if you could post the exact wording of the bit that's worrying you.

[bednobs]

athiest, if your around, could you help with my PP query too (sorry op!)
once PP has been granted, is there any appeal avenue open to objectors?

[Atheist]

bednobs; no. A judicial review can be launched if it's done within a certain time-frame and if you can afford it and, most importantly, if you are confident that there has been some significant breach of procedures such as ignoring a valid objection (Ignoring, i.e. not even considering! Considering and finding it lacking in sufficient weight to warrant refusal is quite in order).

[THECORBYLOON]

Only the person making the application can appeal against a planning decision.

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-planning-decision

[jackthehat]

I'm confused.
If it was 3m or under it could be built under PDR.
So why did you submit a Planning Application?
How old is your house? Was the Conservatory built at the same time as the main house?

[Atheist]

Corby... You're not quite right. Why would someone who's been granted planning permission appeal against the decision? They can, however, appeal against a refusal. Which is probably what you meant, but it's not relevant in bednobs' case.
We're off thread now, so better leave it for another thread.

[Atheist]

Going back to the OP, it sounds as if they may have added an explanatory note to the effect that express planning permission was required, and the decision notice itself did grant express permission.
But without more info we can't be certain.
Buenchico said this in the first response.

[THECORBYLOON]

ATHIEST, the question was, "once PP has been granted, is there any appeal avenue open to objectors?"

My response was accurate.

[THECORBYLOON]

Apologies, ATHEIST.

[Atheist]

Corby, you were accurate.

[bednobs]

Sorry again david, but i dont know where else to get the experts!
If the JR overturned the permission but you'd already started/completed what would the position be?

[David H]

That's the mystery. They said it was too long as they ignored the old conservatory and measured from the end of the kitchen. That alone is a serious oversight but to give permission and then take it away in the small print must be against the rules or you can't rely on their decisions. I'm about to send it over to the architect and if necessary will have to deal with it myself.

[jackthehat]

I think you may be misunderstanding something.....
Can you give us, verbatim, the wording they have used?

[Atheist]

jth; I've already asked for that, but no response. Maybe he'll get advice from his architect today and then disappear from view.

[David H]

Sorry, the phone wouldn't let me do it so I had to do it on the PC.

"t was noted on site that there is an existing single storey rear extension under construction. This extension was also seen in the site photos from 2019 application, which was for the retention of 3.9m extension. Therefore the extension on site would have to be demolished to reduce the depth in order to match the proposed extension as illustrated on the proposed plans."

It seems they believe the kitchen extension is different in the latest plans (first was before, second was as built, third were remedial as the second were refused) and want it changed. It makes sense now and I have a major fight on my hands.

[David H]

Part two.

The first plans clearly show a conservatory behind the kitchen whether or not I can prove it was there before 1945. The extension is 3m behind that, 3.9m in total.

The intermediate plans show the internal kitchen after removing the conservatory as 3600mm and the final proposal is identical.

Therefore there is no change between the first and second submitted kitchen plans so there is no reason they can compare the two. I have never seen such disgraceful behaviour from a public body in my my life.

[bednobs]

i would talk to your planning officer for a definitive answer. Or look n the council's website where it will say "approved" or "rejected" (or whatever language your council uses)