chip and pin

[slimfandango]

Is the pin at shops the same as your hole in the wall pin? sorry for sounding backward.

ps. how's it safe? I see people poking their number into the machine in plain view!

[5029]

Mine is the same, and i agree withyou about the safety issue!

[Rooser]

It's the same number, the idea is reasonably sound as it means that a stolen card can't be used without the number and soon a signature will be no use. Unfortunately, if someone spies you typing your number, then nicks your wallet, well.......

[Hammer]

A good percentage of credit card fraud is cloning cards. This is much more diffcult with a chip than a magnetic strip.

Also, nicking the card from the postal system is less effective because you can't just add any old signature to the card, you need the pin as well.

[Grunty]

If you think someone has seen your PIN, most cards will allow you to change it as often as you wish at a cash machine.  The others will also have an easy way to change the number, perhaps by posting a new one to you.

[rojash]

According to Prof. Ross Anderson of Cambridge University:
"My view [of chip & PIN] is that it is one of the most brazen attempts ever by any country's financial sector to dump liability onto its customers."

[rojash]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that this was a quote from The London Programm, ITV (London Region) Tuesday 15 March, 2005.

[Pinotage]

Its safer for the banks who will deny any fraudulent use of chip'n'pin cards with the reply that the customer didn't keep the PIN safe.

[stellaqueen]

yes it is the same as the hole in the wall, although you can change the number if you know people know your number- say an ex or a friend. I work in a shop part time whilst im not at uni and the cards are no longer shown to the cashier - therefore it is possible for others to use your card (if they know the pin) without your or the cashiers knowledge.

Even tho that said, it is still possible for the pin to be over rided and the receipt to be signed still so the chip and pin system is not entirely security conscious just yet (oh and american express cant even be a chip and pin card - even tho it has a chip! mad isnt it!). It is possible to cover the machine when you type your number - this will limited if not stop people looking at the number bring typed in. Apparently all card user will have chip and pin in the next 2 - 3 years but i really dont see that happening as there are many problems with the new system.

[Loosehead]

This is a much better anti fraud system. The downside is that people can see you type your pin if they are sufficiently interested. They always could at the cash machine, nothing new. Having your pin is no good unless they are prepared to mug you for your card. Not impossible I grant you but most card fraud is much more subtle. So don't worry, even with this short comming fraud is much more difficult.

[Loosehead]

Oh and yes it's is the same number

[slimfandango]

I think it's much more visible at a till than a cash machine. At a till the module is sitting so openly that I would have to look away not to notice. In the last 5 months I've seen 10 transactions and noticed the exact sequence of digits for 7 customers. Not very good.

[Loosehead]

And how many did you mug outside?

[stevie21]

"Prof. Ross Anderson" is on a par with tabloid journalism - he should work for the The Sun! The main criticisms in the TV prog mentioned are those that are already in place which Chip and PIN will reduce.
Chip and PIN has been shown to markedly reduce fraud in each country to introduce and utilise it so far and while not perfect, is a huge improvement in face to face fraud (cloned cards etc.)
It's almost 100% within your control to make sure that others don't see you typing your PIN in to a cash machine or a till in a shop so it's easy to stop others seeing what you're typing

[clarabel82]

A lot of customers complain about the chip and PIN machine being in full view, but I aways tell them that they are allowed to shield it from view, just like you'd do at a cashpoint. We are told to always look away when a customer is entering their PIN, so there is no danger of us seeing their number anyway.

[OBonio]

Thinking towards the future, I think this technology is simply paving the way to having your thumb scanned instead of typing a number in.  Once the technology is there to do this and is cheap enough, it's only a case of replacing the modules at the till with a finger print scanner.

I hope this is what's going to happen anyway.

[stoo_pid]

except then we'd have people moaning about the increased risk of people having cutting their thumbs cut off by muggers

[stevie21]

You mean customers moan and are unreasonable? Never!

[samz90]

Who cares if someone sees your pin. They have to obtain your card aswell to gain access to your accounts and money.Unless they go online chip and pin is useless there!

[josieann]

i heard that america have decided to scrap the system because it is unsafe.  people at tills could easily see what you put in and if inclined mug you to get your card of you.

[stevie21]

josieann, you can easily mask what you type so that no-one sees what you type.

Are you honestly saying that it is completely outwith your control that others see your pin?