Struggled to wire a light

[HappyFace]

I was asked, but failed miserably, to put up an old chandelier for my inlaws. Normally with a ceiling rose there is a junction box where the wires meet, apart from the earth. With this light, there were two parts, 1 which was brass and fitted to the ceiling (a fancy rose) and 2 the actual light which had another brass attachment concealing the wires from the light. What I cant understand is how the concealed wires join the wires from the ceiling. Please help me so I can save some face!

[buildersmate]

With these type of lights, you have to remove the ceiling rose (which is in effect a little junction box) up into the void in the ceiling and connect the new light to it. If the old ceiling rose is too big to be stuffed up through the plasterboard without making a bigger hole, buy a small 6A junction box from B+Q or use a 4 way Choc-block type terminal block. The trouble with a Choc-block is that it is not fully insulated so you have to wrap insulating tape around it. It is perfectly acceptable practice to have a junction box sitting loose up in the celing void. Then having made the electrical connections, make the mechanical connection using screws for the chandelier into the joists. Sometimes you find that the original builder did not put the original ceiling rose into a joist - its just in the plasterboard. This works for a 'light' (weight!) pendant but won't for a heavy chandelier.

[qapmoc]

Do you mean that you are trying to take down a normal modern plastic ceiling rose and put this old brass ''thing'' in its place?
If yes you may have some problems, I have seen old brass chandlier lights which can only be fixed where you can access the top of the ceiling (ie from in the loft) and the light is fixed to the ceiling with the wires pushed through a hole into the ceiling space and then you make the connection by going into the roof and proceeding as buildersmate suggests.

[HappyFace]

My question is not about how I attach it to the ceiling, it is about the wiring. With normal light fittings the wires that come from the ceiling attach to the actual light's wires. My problem is the wires in the light are concealed. I cannot physically connect the wires from the light to the ones form the ceiling!!!

[buildersmate]

When you say they are concealed, I think you mean they inside the cup of the top of the chandelier. Surely either you've got a terminal block in there physically attached to the inside of the cup which you've got to put wires into, or you've got flying leads hanging out. Either way you need flying leads at least 25cm long (by making up flying leads to put into the 'hidden' terminal block), to make the electrical connection first (as per above), then push the terminal block linking the flying leads to the house lighting wiring ring up into the ceiling void. Then you screw up the chandelier to the ceiling, pushing the spare lead into the void. Removal is the reverse. Does that help? The last thing you need to know (if you don't already) is that one of the terminations on a ceiling rose doesn't connect to the actual light. It is the live connection which is connected to the switch on the wall - this cable's return wire (called the switched live) goes to the live (brown) wire on the chandelier.