self employed 12 week contracts question

[dotty.]

hi guys, this is the scenario, a self employed site manager has a 12 week contract with a developer, anytihng over 12 weeks being deemed as cards in, if the same developer has joinery work on another site and the self employed site manager takes on that contract to overlap the 12 week one, is it deemed cards in if the first 12 week as site manager overlaps a second 12 weeks as a self employed sub-contract joiner? the idea being there is no break in the continuity of income for the self employed person.

[Maydup]

I'm not familair with the phrase "cards in", is it the same as going on the books?

[factor-fiction]

I can't follow this, dotty.- sorry. But buildersmate has been around tonight and he may understand the situation and terminology (cards-in) you describe

[cathfromsaron]

if you are self=employed you pay your own tax, public liability insurance and NI etc, and work for many people, who pay your bills!

this looks like getting round the employment rules to me!

[dotty.]

yes that's the idea cath, basically to avoid being out of work for a couple of weeks whilst another contract is available. tax paid at 20% deducted with cis card. the alternative is to starve and not be able to pay the mortgage i guess cath, rules or no rules, no developer wants to pay NI even in the short term. plus, there is no unemployment benefit or esa for self employed, they have to take the good with the bad according to the benefits agency

[buildersmate]

You are asking a very specific question related to the CIS scheme that is mandated for employers to use in the building industry for employment of their subbies. In spite of my name I am not familiar enough with the practical use of CIS to know the answer to this.
I will try and check it out later - unless Tony Wiltshire gets in first with the answer.

[dotty.]

thanks for that buildersmate, i had wavered over which category to post this in as i guess it is more business/finance, but i put it here to catch anyone with a similar experience, it's a plan. i've told my other half that apparently his bills get paid by other taxpayers, he's picking up his car today, cost £158 for wheel bearings, he says he will lend the tax payers the money to pay the bill now to enable him to go to work and pay his 20% this week. then they can borrow his 20% until next year when he'll try to scrape some of it back in a rebate.

[buildersmate]

I'm not sure what you are getting at in your last post - a commentary that things are tight when one is trying to run as a self-employed person, especially if one has to lose some the gross income because the main contractor is a 'deemed employer'?

I don't want to be teaching GMs to suck eggs, but are you and your partner familiar enough with how the CIS operates? In that, if HMRC regards the organisation that he is contracted to as a deemed contractor, then most operations that relate to the construction activity, including many operations like fabrication off-site are tied into the CIS. Which I think means that the contractor is forced to deduct a straight percentage off gross wages - irrespective of the claimed employment status of the self-employed person. But your partner seems to be an SE site manager - I'm not sure the extent to which this job spec is covered by CIS - my guess is that it is.
Not do I understand whay you are trying to do in this 2 week period between contracts.
Does this help?
http://www.hmrc.gov.u...tro/decide-if-cis.htm

[Im a BusyBee]

there could be several issues here.....HMRC loss of ers NI.....you can 'earn' gross status whereby you do not have a cis tax deduction (although i tell ppl to look at tax deductions as a savings account which in effect it is).........strictly speaking i would say this guy should go on the books if a) he is a one man band b) it is always and only him that does the work c) he is supervised and told what to do by the developer and d) he takes no risk. Regardless of working under different 'contracts' he is only and always working for the same developer.