overtime and holiday pay

[higgirach]

Ive been working 17 hours (3 days) a week now since before christmas. When I came to take some holiday I was told by my manager that I wouldnt be paid for one of the days that I work because it still hasnt been contracted; it is down as overtime.
I was told before that he would contract these hours as soon as possible, as soon as the company could afford it.
What are my rights regarding holiday pay? Should these hours be contracted? or are they allowed to do this?

[dot.haukes]

if you have worked the same number of hours for over 6 weeks i think it can be deemed to be your contrcated hours, but not 100%, certainly where i work we would consider that so. What are your contrcated hours?

[dot.haukes]

try this link, your argument is that consistent overtime on set days of the week should really be deemed to be your contract but the company are trying to aviod making it your contrcat to avoid paying you holiday pay
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employe es/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10028439

[higgirach]

I work 17 hours but am only being contracted for 11.5. So when I was forced to take time off during the exam period, I was told I would only be paid for 2 weeks at 11.5 hours, instead of 17.

[dot.haukes]

I think buildermate could help he was about earlier. As I said, I think it could be deemed a contract if you have worked those hours on a permanent basis. Have you looked through the link? Is anyone else at your work having the same situation with their hours?

[higgirach]

Yes thankyou I have looked through the link and Ive seen a few things which do tend to agree with what youre saying, however nothing explicitly.
Yes I think there a few people at work are in the same situation, working "overtime hours" every week on a regular basis, however they either don't seem to mind that they wont be paid holiday pay for these days, or are unaware.

[tamborine]

17h = 2days work @ 8hpd. You seem a part time worker so not entitled to paid holidays or overtime. It depends on your agreement with your employer.

[buildersmate]

First things first; the above answer by tamborine is completely wrong. There is no differentiation between part-time workers and full-time workers in regard to holiday entitlement. Overtime may be differential, but it would have to say so in the terms of the contract (what typically happens is that some part-time workers are not permitted to have overtime rates until their number of hours worked in a week exceeds the contracted hours of a full-time worker).
So, as beeen said on here many times before by Buenchico and others, you get a minimum of 5.6x your 'contracted hours in holiday. This may include public holidays. The 5.6x is a legal minimum.

The issue for you, as others identified before tamborine 'butted in', is 'what are your contracted hours'. Within 2 months of starting work, your employer should have given you a principal statement in writing of employment particulars. This is also a legal obligation, and if you had it now, this issue wouldn't apply because one of the things it must tell you is your hours of work (from which you can work out the number of hours). Ask for this now.
This business about increasing your contracted hours 'when they can afford it' is tripe. I suspect they are going to get away with this holiday hours issue now, because you can't prove it one way or the other until you get the Written Statement.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employe es/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_175704

[higgirach]

thanks buildersmate, finally someone seems to understand the situation.
Yes I think I need to get my written statement of employment.

However I do know that at the moment I am only contracted for 11.5 hours. Basically the issue is that when I was asked to increase my hours, I was not explicitly told that it would have to remain as "overtime" for this long. My manager kept telling me "yeah I will make sure I put those hours into your contract for you dont worry" I can see that they are probably going to get away with not paying me for holiday for this extra day, because my manager has been saying "well you were on the understanding that it was down as overtime".

I guess I just thought, since ive been working 17 hours a week for atleast 7 months now, that it would have to become part of my contract. Clearly not though.

[buildersmate]

The trouble is, 7 months may not be long enough to make it 'custom and practice'. There's nothing to say it is or it isn't, and I can't point you in the direction of anything to help you.
Can I ask - is overtime paid at a higher rate to FULL-TIME staff that exceed their contracted hours? The reason for asking is this: if it is, and you are NOT being paid at a higher rate for extra hours, that would tend to suggest that your contracted hours HAVE increased. (Note: it is fairly common that part-timers who do work overtime do not benefit from being paid O/T rates on extra hours until those hours exceed the weekly F/T number of 37 or whatever). That is the only angle I can think of that might help your argument - but it is not legal 'proof' of foul-play on their part.

[higgirach]

No, no-one is paid extra for overtime, there is no overtime rate as far as I am aware.