Claiming land

[Oldilocks]

Can anyone tell me if we can claim a strip of land at the back of our garden which has been fenced off and maintained by us for 23 years? The farmer has sent us a solicitors letter telling us to remove the fence back to our boundary!

[joko]

unlikely.
the land is owned by the farmer and just because he has allowed you to use it and not caused a fuss does not mean it is now yours.

[Oldilocks]

Thanks for the reply. Is your reply based on legal knowledge or is it just your opinion? If you have based it on legal knowledge, would you be so kind as to give me a reference as to where I can read all the details. Thanks.

[jake-the-peg]

This sounds like "Adverse possession" see the land registry leaflet here:
http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/assets/library/ documents/public_guide_016.pdf

For full details see the practice guide here:

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/assets/library/ documents/lrpg004.pdf

[Oldilocks]

Thanks Jake-the-peg, that is what I needed to know!

[MustafaTickl]

The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors run a free helpline for Boundary Disputes on 0870 3331600 which may be of help to you.

The offer to end the matter simply by you moving the fence back to your boundary is valuable and should not lightly be scorned or ignored. If you have been using the land as garden, vegetable patch or similar a claim by you for Adverse Possession will almost certainly fail. If you contest this, you will find that by the time it has gone through trial you will have spent a minimum of �25,000 and your opponent the same. Loser pays both sets of costs, so you are putting a minimum of �50,000 at risk. However, in my experience over recent years most boundary dispute losers are down around �100,000. Some have to sell their house to fund it. Also, whilst the dispute exists you will not be able to sell your property, as a house blighted by a boundary dispute is unsaleable.

[johnny37]

Mustafticki,

Not suggesting Olidlocks should go down this route and you are right about the costs but why would a claim for adverse possession fail. Surely a vegetable patch is uninterrupted use?

[Oldilocks]

MustafaTickle, thanks for your answer. There is no dispute over the boundary as we know where our boundary is. Why is a claim for Adverse Possession sure to fail in your opinion?

[MustafaTickl]

It is a boundary dispute. You are claiming that your boundary is around the land owned by your opponent, he is claiming that it is not.

Merely planting vegetables in a patch of land, cutting the grass, using it as a garden etc, for however long and whether completely fenced off or not, is not the use of somebody else's land that gives rise to a successful claim for adverse possession.

[Oldilocks]

No ,we are not claiming that our boundary is around the farmer's land! As I said, we know where our boundary is. And if Adverse possession is not using someone else's land without their consent, what is it?

[MustafaTickl]

Adverse Possession is just a name given to the legal process of someone claiming ownership of somebody else's land. Of itself it is not a holding of the land like freehold, leasehold, licence etc. It is only a legal process that could just as well be called Mrs Bloggs Currant Cake for all it matters. In your specific case for a long period of time you have unlawfully occupied a portion of another's land that has a boundary contiguous with your own. You have been told to withdraw. Your only defence for not withdrawing is to claim that under Mrs Bloggs Currant Cake it is you that is now entitled to the freehold, not the original owner. Claiming you are now the freeholder is your only defence, there is no other, and in pressing forward with this you are notionally moving the contiguous boundary to around the contested area and merging the contested area with your existing garden, that is why it is a boundary dispute. For your defence, you will be required to prove that under the rules for Adverse Possession (which were first written down over 900 years ago with much case law since) that you have become the true freeholder. It obviously will be contested and preparing a matter like this for trial requires expertise and is complicated, protracted, outrageously expensive and will blight your property. You do not in fact stand much chance of success:
(1) if you had erected part of a house, factory or other permanent building on the area you would stand a 95% chance
(2) if you had erected a shed, greenhouse or similar on the area you would stand not more than a 50% chance
(3) if all that you have on the area is a cauliflower, two tulips and some mowed grass you stand no chance.

[Oldilocks]

Thanks for that. We have not illegally used the land, but I won't go into that. We have decided, however, that we are not going to try claiming the land and will hopefully resolve problems that have arisen recently in a different way!

[beardydragon]

would the farmer possibly be interested in selling you the land?

Far cheaper than the legal route I suspect...........