Editor's Blog1 min ago
Is any of this ''Criminal'' ? I need advice.
A friend of mine was the Stewardess at a social club, the job included accomadation in a flat attached to the club.
The club has shut down after struggling to pay the bills . She has not been paid wages for the last 3 months. the club electricity was cut off due to none payment of the bill , the flat was cut off as well so she had to leave and she lost over £2000 worth of food in her freezers. She offered to pay the portion of the bill due for the flat but was told it was not possible as it was on the same bill. She is now homeless. Furthermore she used over £5000 of her own money to buy stock to keep the club running, she has proof of this. The club sold off the stock she bought and not given her any of the cash back.
When she was forced to leave the flat she had a contract for the club to provide her with accomadation until March 2012 , they did not even give her notice to quit.
I think that most of this is under civil law , but the forced eviction and the sale of her stock may be criminal law (Theft ?)
This is important as she has no cash at all now and has asked me if she can get legal aid. I know legal aid is not available for civil cases but may be available for criminal cases.
Just thought of something more , the club also boarded up the door from her flat to the club , this meant she could not enter the club to recover her property that was in the club . All in all she is owed over £20,000, the club premisis is up for sale and expected to raise over £750,000. She is scared that the way the club have acted will mean she will never see her cash again.
There are NO accusations against her and no suggestion that she was in any way to blame for the club closing.
The club has shut down after struggling to pay the bills . She has not been paid wages for the last 3 months. the club electricity was cut off due to none payment of the bill , the flat was cut off as well so she had to leave and she lost over £2000 worth of food in her freezers. She offered to pay the portion of the bill due for the flat but was told it was not possible as it was on the same bill. She is now homeless. Furthermore she used over £5000 of her own money to buy stock to keep the club running, she has proof of this. The club sold off the stock she bought and not given her any of the cash back.
When she was forced to leave the flat she had a contract for the club to provide her with accomadation until March 2012 , they did not even give her notice to quit.
I think that most of this is under civil law , but the forced eviction and the sale of her stock may be criminal law (Theft ?)
This is important as she has no cash at all now and has asked me if she can get legal aid. I know legal aid is not available for civil cases but may be available for criminal cases.
Just thought of something more , the club also boarded up the door from her flat to the club , this meant she could not enter the club to recover her property that was in the club . All in all she is owed over £20,000, the club premisis is up for sale and expected to raise over £750,000. She is scared that the way the club have acted will mean she will never see her cash again.
There are NO accusations against her and no suggestion that she was in any way to blame for the club closing.
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You say she used her own money to buy stock. Was there any agreement over if and when she would get the money back. She could do with getting a solicitor on to her case due to the amount that she feels she is due. There are so many different aspects to this and if they have breeched contracts then this needs to be addressed asap.
Thanks that is the problem, most of this is civil law, and no legal aid is available. She is skint and sleeping on her sister sofa at present.
I hoped that the stock issue would count as theft so she can get legal aid. I know most of it is civil law so no legal aid. I have told her to get the free 1/2 hour advice but she is going to need more than that and has no cash at all.
I hoped that the stock issue would count as theft so she can get legal aid. I know most of it is civil law so no legal aid. I have told her to get the free 1/2 hour advice but she is going to need more than that and has no cash at all.
Yes, she has proof , her cheques made out to the brewery and the bank statements, even the brewery rep is willing to state that she paid the bill personally as the club was skint , she has reciepts showing that she, not the club bought the beer. I think this is theft but I need to be sure before we talk to the secratary.
Thanks DT am going to go to the secretary and say it was theft as I am pretty sure it is . Problem is that if there is cash left over from the sale (as there should be) it get distributed to the people who were members when it finished trading. Some of them are ready to try ,fair means or foul to get her out of the picture with as little cash as possible .
Eddie, get her to a solicitor, asap. This is complicated. There are employment law issues here as well as the recovery of the money she is owed.
I must say it was remarkably generous of her to use her own money to pay the club bills - I wouldn't have done so, not knowing what a sticky situation the club was in financially. I wonder whether there was anything in writing from the club promising to reimburse her? - if so that would be a useful document to have, otherwise a mean argument from the club could be that she paid these things voluntarily (looking at the worst case scenario). I wish her very good luck with this - but seek formal legal advice without delay, to make sure that a claim against the proceeds of the sale of the club is lodged now with the club's solicitors.
I must say it was remarkably generous of her to use her own money to pay the club bills - I wouldn't have done so, not knowing what a sticky situation the club was in financially. I wonder whether there was anything in writing from the club promising to reimburse her? - if so that would be a useful document to have, otherwise a mean argument from the club could be that she paid these things voluntarily (looking at the worst case scenario). I wish her very good luck with this - but seek formal legal advice without delay, to make sure that a claim against the proceeds of the sale of the club is lodged now with the club's solicitors.
Well if you and the lady concerned visit the police station and make an allegation of theft against the club committee stating that you consider it theft as she told them she wanted to recover her goods and then found out they had sold them, you'll soon see if the police are prepared to treat it as theft. If they won't ( and I think they might take some arguing to persuade them to) then take them to county court for the full amount oweing to her for everything, and first get a judgement against her. Then apply straight away for the High Court to enforce it ( county court bailiffs are rubbish)- and then send them bankrupt so that if other creditors have them also, she will at least stand some chance of getting some of her money back.
Thanks people I have told her she has to see a solicitor and said to use the free 1/2 hour service to see where she stands.
The problem is she has no cash at all now (all gone to the club) and is homeless , sleeping on her sisters sofa. It is complicated and solicitors are going to want cash to prepare a case, she is totally skint. That is why I was hopeing that some of this would come under criminal law and be eligable for legal aid.
The problem is she has no cash at all now (all gone to the club) and is homeless , sleeping on her sisters sofa. It is complicated and solicitors are going to want cash to prepare a case, she is totally skint. That is why I was hopeing that some of this would come under criminal law and be eligable for legal aid.
Hi Eddie
Yes, basically, the police (and other agencies) instigate criminal proceedings etc and no need to hire a solicitor if you are the complainant, witness or victim. (Sorry, I cant offer any advice whether this matter is all civil or part criminal as the full facts would need to be examined).
If all else fails you could try running the facts through the police for an initial assessment.
You could book an appointment to have a consultation with the police for an initial assessment but they would need all the facts and evidence etc etc.
Yes, basically, the police (and other agencies) instigate criminal proceedings etc and no need to hire a solicitor if you are the complainant, witness or victim. (Sorry, I cant offer any advice whether this matter is all civil or part criminal as the full facts would need to be examined).
If all else fails you could try running the facts through the police for an initial assessment.
You could book an appointment to have a consultation with the police for an initial assessment but they would need all the facts and evidence etc etc.
Eddie, you need to follow Boxtops advice. As good as some of the experts are on here, the potential case is far too complex to receive a cut and dried answer. One aspect which hasn't been mentioned is your friends responsibilities as Secretary of the club which should have put her in a position whereby she was aware of the imminent closure and whether a) she has been negligent in these duties or b) the other 'officers' acted without her knowledge. The implications of either would depend on the specific constitution of the club.
hiya, eddie. this is a complicated one and several courses of action will be required. if this flat was:
a) self-contained and part of her employment package
b) under a six month tenancy (at least)
c) was not given at least two months notice to leave (after the first 6 month period);
it is an illegal eviction process. however:
a) if it has happened in the last couple of days it could be seen as a criminal matter and she may be able to go to court and pursue a claim of compensation for being evicted without due process (and loss and distress against the landlords); but this is very difficult to do, expensive and risky and she will have only a small chance of winning the case (and may be liable for costs if unsuccessful) - almost slim to nothing, unfortunately, and given the financial status of the landlord this may be futile anyway – housing law is a bit rubbish in this area
b) if this has occurred within the last week or longer, as she has left the property, there is very little she can do about the eviction as it will now be a civil matter, not a criminal one. you can only involved the police and courts in an illegal eviction process if you are still living and in that building, the door has been boarded up or the bailiffs are trying to throw you out, for example, and you are trying to address this AT THE TIME - the second you leave and begin staying elsewhere (for any length of time), any course of action is again futile and almost impossible to address via the court system - and again this is risky financially for your friend and it sounds like she has already lost a lot of money and she could be throwing more away pursuing this course of action
the best place to approach for housing/eviction advice and support is her local homelessness unit, housing advice service or Shelter and this is the link to their site:
http://www.shelter.org.uk/
(information given by mr kicker - a former homelessness officer with plenty of experience of illegal evictions and the usefulness – or not – of housing law and rogue landlords)
she is certainly entitled to collect her belongings and will have to talk to the landlord or bailiffs/administrators to collect these and may need legal advice/CAB etc. to collect these asap. It is not theft (as they are still in situ), but she has redress to recover them via the person dealing with the sale or administration of the club
as for the money she is owed, i have no idea - others will answer that. but – if the club is in administration/bankrupt/in deep financial poop, she will be in a long line of creditors and may not see any of the money that is owed to her. but, if it is still owed by the landlord and he is trying to sell, she should contact a solicitor about recovering her money via interest in the property or making him bankrupt to pay etc. each approach suggested is risky and she does need legal advice asap. I wish her well and good luck x
a) self-contained and part of her employment package
b) under a six month tenancy (at least)
c) was not given at least two months notice to leave (after the first 6 month period);
it is an illegal eviction process. however:
a) if it has happened in the last couple of days it could be seen as a criminal matter and she may be able to go to court and pursue a claim of compensation for being evicted without due process (and loss and distress against the landlords); but this is very difficult to do, expensive and risky and she will have only a small chance of winning the case (and may be liable for costs if unsuccessful) - almost slim to nothing, unfortunately, and given the financial status of the landlord this may be futile anyway – housing law is a bit rubbish in this area
b) if this has occurred within the last week or longer, as she has left the property, there is very little she can do about the eviction as it will now be a civil matter, not a criminal one. you can only involved the police and courts in an illegal eviction process if you are still living and in that building, the door has been boarded up or the bailiffs are trying to throw you out, for example, and you are trying to address this AT THE TIME - the second you leave and begin staying elsewhere (for any length of time), any course of action is again futile and almost impossible to address via the court system - and again this is risky financially for your friend and it sounds like she has already lost a lot of money and she could be throwing more away pursuing this course of action
the best place to approach for housing/eviction advice and support is her local homelessness unit, housing advice service or Shelter and this is the link to their site:
http://www.shelter.org.uk/
(information given by mr kicker - a former homelessness officer with plenty of experience of illegal evictions and the usefulness – or not – of housing law and rogue landlords)
she is certainly entitled to collect her belongings and will have to talk to the landlord or bailiffs/administrators to collect these and may need legal advice/CAB etc. to collect these asap. It is not theft (as they are still in situ), but she has redress to recover them via the person dealing with the sale or administration of the club
as for the money she is owed, i have no idea - others will answer that. but – if the club is in administration/bankrupt/in deep financial poop, she will be in a long line of creditors and may not see any of the money that is owed to her. but, if it is still owed by the landlord and he is trying to sell, she should contact a solicitor about recovering her money via interest in the property or making him bankrupt to pay etc. each approach suggested is risky and she does need legal advice asap. I wish her well and good luck x
lcg76 yes it was an illegal eviction but several weeks ago now.
Seeing a solicitor Monday. The building has people intrested in buying it to convert to a Large pub , it is a listed building 3 stories plus a large cellar and the stewards flat .The price is likedly to be around £750,000 so there will be money available, she has to find a way of getting what she is owed.
As I said earlier the rules of the club are that if it closes and is sold any cash left over is distributed to the members so some of them are trying everything including illegal means to get her out of the picture so that they collect more cash.
Seeing a solicitor Monday. The building has people intrested in buying it to convert to a Large pub , it is a listed building 3 stories plus a large cellar and the stewards flat .The price is likedly to be around £750,000 so there will be money available, she has to find a way of getting what she is owed.
As I said earlier the rules of the club are that if it closes and is sold any cash left over is distributed to the members so some of them are trying everything including illegal means to get her out of the picture so that they collect more cash.
